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#397220 - 05/28/08 06:14 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: creative]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

My memory is fine.

I do not consider Chucks striking to "appear similar to karate" strikes.

In your post you clearly attempt to add weight to the use of kata by by saying:

"chuck leddells techniques come from a KATACENTRIC system similar to many okinawan karate styles"

You added specificity to kata. - Are your arguements not holding up? Is it you who is attempting to change the discussion?

Again, I don't see anything specifically karate like in Chucks striking....I only assume you were talking about his striking, or were you referring to his grappling techniques being learned from katacentric Okinawan like systems Medulanet?

So is there anyone else who uses karate (like) strikes in UFC? Not that I can think of.




Correct, katacentric system is used to describe its relation to karate. That is what makes the system where Hack learned to fight "similar to karate". Notice I did not credit kata training to his stricking skills. I simply used it to describe Hack's base system as one which contains and utilizes kata. It was YOU who said my argument did not hold water because Chuck did not get his skills from kata. Which is not a premise on which my argument was based regarding Chuck's skills. Are you seeing what I am saying now? Maybe I should have explained my useage of katacentric better.
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#397221 - 05/28/08 10:37 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Brian, I am no master. I am just a student still trying to get the basics down




Please, since when have any of your posts come off as humble.
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#397222 - 05/29/08 12:52 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

Brian, I am no master. I am just a student still trying to get the basics down




Please, since when have any of your posts come off as humble.




So that means we cannot work to better ourselves, shed our past mistakes, and develop as human beings? Interesting.
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Dulaney Dojo

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#397223 - 05/29/08 01:14 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Brian, I am no master. I am just a student still trying to get the basics down




Please, since when have any of your posts come off as humble.




So that means we cannot work to better ourselves, shed our past mistakes, and develop as human beings? Interesting.




even as recent as this thread? Sure,why not?
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#397224 - 05/29/08 08:15 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: medulanet]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
Quote:

Correct, katacentric system is used to describe its relation to karate. That is what makes the system where Hack learned to fight "similar to karate". Notice I did not credit kata training to his stricking skills. I simply used it to describe Hack's base system as one which contains and utilizes kata. It was YOU who said my argument did not hold water because Chuck did not get his skills from kata. Which is not a premise on which my argument was based regarding Chuck's skills. Are you seeing what I am saying now? Maybe I should have explained my useage of katacentric better.




Round and round we go. Just frustrating form my POV that i take time to read and reply then you post:

Quote:

But that's just it creative. Maybe its your memory or just your thinking is all fouled up, but I was responding to your question of using "anything that appears similar to karate" not kata specifically. Its easy to change your story mid stream. But I know what you said and will point it out with YOUR own quotes. Now if you would like to ask a different question to fit you needs go ahead




I can point out my quotes too.

I said:
Quote:

As far as I know, only 1 person in the UFC uses anything that appears similar to karate to any great effect 1 person in the history of the UFC




you replied:
Quote:

Wrong. Chuck Liddell's techniques come from a katacentric system similar to many okinawan karate styles




Did that reply prove the statement wrong?
So his techniques came from (as you specifically mention) katacentric Okinawan like karate. But he does not use karate like skills(punching or grappling) as you say, so his fighting does not appear similar to karate.

What is the point you are trying to make? That somewhere down the line Chuck did a system that involved kata?

That was you answer to my point "As far as I know, only 1 person in the UFC uses anything that appears similar to karate to any great effect".

And it is me who is changing my argument? And now that it because i didn't understand you or you explained it wrong!? Perhaps you might re read your own posts before accusing people of

"change(ING) your story mid stream. But I know what you said and will point it out with YOUR own quotes. Now if you would like to ask a different question to fit you needs go ahead"

lol.
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#397225 - 05/29/08 08:34 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: creative]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
I mentioned earlier in the thread about people not knowing the use of kata. I think this post kind of adds weight to that.

It seems many people seemed happy to accept that kata was for fighting multiple attackers.

Another popular thought was that it was for defences against karate style attacks.

Performing kata improved timing, improved zanchin.

Then kata was for defence against common attacks, habitual acts of violence.

Then came UFC and kata is used for wrestling.

Kata is to show pressure points.

Nathan Johnson then says kata is about passive fighting, as monks would fight.

Then kata has ground fighting.

N.Johnson then finds kata is for weapon fighting.

Kata is moving meditation.

Now that Machida , a karate like fighting guy is doing well in UFC Kata can be for MMA fighting.

Now i know not all people think all or some (or none) of these things, and these are very broad generalisations. You can see where it gets a bit ridiculous.

P.S. Is this too far off topic?
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#397226 - 05/29/08 02:12 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Brian, I am no master. I am just a student still trying to get the basics down




Please, since when have any of your posts come off as humble.




So that means we cannot work to better ourselves, shed our past mistakes, and develop as human beings? Interesting.




even as recent as this thread? Sure,why not?




I never said I was trying to do that in this thread.
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Dulaney Dojo

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#397227 - 05/29/08 02:19 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: creative]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Whoa Kemo Sabe! Many of Lidell's striking techniques are found in kata. Overhand strikes, straight punches, hook punches, and front kicks are there. Even some of the standing grappling he uses to stop takedowns. In fact, his strategy comes from kata as well. The whole I want to fight from my feet thingy. In addition, Liddell utilizes a whipping effect which helps him generate his KO power. When did I change my story? By saying I should have better explained my usage of katacentric? Come on now. We were talking about someone using something similar to karate, right? Hack's fighting knowledge comes from a style with kata. Then he went into the pro fighter training business and focused on conditioning and sport rather than the traditional aspects of the style in which he was trained. Kind of like some sport karate guys.
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#397228 - 05/29/08 02:57 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Whoa Kemo Sabe! Many of Lidell's striking techniques are found in kata. Overhand strikes, straight punches, hook punches, and front kicks are there. Even some of the standing grappling he uses to stop takedowns. In fact, his strategy comes from kata as well. The whole I want to fight from my feet thingy. In addition, Liddell utilizes a whipping effect which helps him generate his KO power. When did I change my story? By saying I should have better explained my usage of katacentric? Come on now. We were talking about someone using something similar to karate, right? Hack's fighting knowledge comes from a style with kata. Then he went into the pro fighter training business and focused on conditioning and sport rather than the traditional aspects of the style in which he was trained. Kind of like some sport karate guys.




You would need to get feedback from Chuck himself before you can make those assumptions homeskillet.

I don't think it would be something you would want to hear though.
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#397229 - 05/29/08 02:59 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: BrianS]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I could probably find that out since I know his sensei from Koei Kan....:-)
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