Tenkan in Aikido is( again this is a very crude explanation!) a 180 degree turn. Tori (the person being attacked) absorbs uke's (the attacker) attack.

It was like Nishio sensei said in the Irimi Nage clip: In Aikido, the force isn't blocked or stopped, its taken in a different way i.e. redirected.

In Tenkan, the movement is taken the direction it is going then redirected. In the below example, Yamada Sensei shows the Tenkan at around 00:10. Uke (attacker) is moving his left arm forward. That is the direction of the attack and his movement. So Yamada Sensei uses Tenkan to keep that movement going (while avoiding the attack) and then using that movement to re-direct the attack. Hope that makes sense!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgc25csUSMA

On a non-Aikido note, found another clip, don't know if this is what you are referring to (sorry I don't know much about karate!):

Keinosuke Eneoda, Shotokan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v38XQJgK7W0

Hi harlan.

Just as your posted video shows, it isn't just aikido that use the term irimi. I wouldn't get too tied up with aikido's term because their irimi is quite specific and involves a series of movements.

"Irimi" just means "entering" and goes back to both 'ti'/'tode' and Japanese arts such as kenjutsu and jujutsu. Tenkan is really just irimi + a turn. Again, in aikido the concept is more elaborate (I'm not being critical, just that this would be a very crude description of aikido's sequence of moves and their concept).

Your posted video shows 'ura irimi' which is an application of the opening move of naihanchi shodan.

On the other hand saifa uses standard 'irmi' as do other Okinawan kata.

Both occur in the Chinese arts, particularly the internal arts but also some Shaolin. Here's me in around 2000 demonstrating irimi from Hong Yi Xiang's form "Shaolin Peng":


I actually don't know the Chinese term (they aren't big on naming individual applications of forms), but people like Tim Cartmell are experts at it (he is a bagua/taiji practitioner who is also an experienced full-contact fighter in the Orient).

Have a look at our touxing forms - a collection of qin-na 'irimi' of the kind people like Cartmell utilise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiUaVspH3TA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B56GG6bCdVU

I'm glad you posted about this--i was wondering what other people called it too. In motobu udundi, my sensei has always just called it "ayumi" or walking, along with the other walking techniques. Our really basic one is one diagonal step to enter, one continuing step to unbalance, and then a step at 90 degrees to take down or throw. This is the same walking pattern that shows up in okinawan dance, which has led to a lot of speculation...

Thank you, all for replying. Irimi, kuzushi, ayumi...yep...that's it. With or without throws, turns, or strikes...that's it.

Jokester.

Thanks for popping in and contributing. I will definitely ask to work on this particular aspect of bunkai next week.

Sorry... I just realized this was asked in the Karate forum and my reply may have come across as somewhat Aikido-centric. Not that it is nor was intended... the concept of irimi, or entering into your opponent/opponent's space is applicable to many arts....

Step and slide... step and slide...

Hi Harlan

Something to note is that the key to irimi of the kind pictured above is the "C" back which is central to the internal arts (and aikido, for that matter). However, the opposite is true in the "ura irimi shown by Tim Cartmell here at 0:22 to 0:25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuP6cApKAD8 (ura irimi is the "inverted" version of normal irimi).

Chofukainoa - what you wrote was very interesting:

Quote:

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In motobu udundi, my sensei has always just called it "ayumi" or walking, along with the other walking techniques. Our really basic one is one diagonal step to enter, one continuing step to unbalance, and then a step at 90 degrees to take down or throw.

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My internal Chinese martial arts applies the same principle - take a look at the diagonal steps etc. in the links to the forms under my picture of irimi (ayumi) above.

The name "ayumi" literally means, as you have said, "walking" (eg. "ayumi ashi" is the normal step, as opposed to, say, "suri ashi" or sliding step). It is for this reason that I prefer "irimi" to describe the concept of "entering" another's space - it is more specific. Otherwise you are correct in the sense that it is a "walking" movement.

I'd absolutely love to see/train in motobu udundi, btw. It seems like a fascinating art - right up my alley, so to speak.

Eyrie - you said:

Quote:

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There's a reason for all those "wrist manipulations" in Aikido... and equally so for those unrealistic "wrist grabs"... it's all about irimi... enter and walk thru...

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While I agree with the thrust of your comment, I don't think that wrist grabs are quite so unrealistic as people will popularly say nowadays. If you look at our sparring video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tL9rGeKZGU you'll see lots of wrist grabs applied offensively (to trap, control, throw, etc.). If they are applied offensively then you can use escapes against them defensively. I'm not sure if there are in any in the video, but I apply kote gaeshi, for example, routinely in fast free sparring. I think the reason you don't see grabs in free fighting is the same reason you don't see deflections: People might train them as basics, but never apply them on the floor.

In my experience, you can't do a form or basics and expect the techniques to magically appear in your sparring... That is why we have methods to transition from one to the other (randori, embu - our 2 person forms, etc.).

I think Eyrie was being a little 'tongue in cheek' about the wrist grabs. A little site history...;)

thanks, again, guys for adding to the thread.