FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 29 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
sunny, swordy, jerrybarry24, SenseiGregT, sagat
22914 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ed_Morris 4
futsaowingchun 3
Zombie Zero 2
AndyLA 2
ergees 2
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
mindfullness meditation
by
01/06/09 11:27 AM
Recent Posts
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
Yesterday at 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/07/14 07:01 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
09/02/14 06:26 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/31/14 09:43 PM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
Forum Stats
22914 Members
36 Forums
35575 Topics
432492 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 3 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#396306 - 05/22/08 07:19 AM Re: what does master or gand-master mean to you? [Re: Dereck]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

THEIR Korean teacher holds the rank of 7th Dan and he is called by them their Master. I would have no problems calling him Master if I trained under him as they consider him their Master. However calling somebody a Grand Master is just too much of a title in my opinion and too much of an ego thing. I'm sure my Instructor and the others could theoretically call themselves Masters however they don't and I like it that way. In fact we call them by their first name followed by "Sir" when addressing them; the same way they address me/others. I like it this way; no ego, no title.




I'm just Mr. Andle, sir, or "hey" but having trained with Masters of all ranks you'll know that there's something to the real deal. Depending on your organization your instructors might get away with calling themselves that, but actively training with one, they know the difference. When he tells them they have mastered his teachings, they will know it too.
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

Top
#396307 - 05/22/08 07:29 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: Dereck]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

Quote:

So sure, a 4'th degree master is going to have significantly less knowledge and experience than a 7'th degree




I don't agree with this. From those I spoke with and from those I've seen their skill this does not ring true. And in fact I've been told more then once by more then one person that it gets more political then anything else which does not require "said" skills. I would most certainly put up many 4th Dans or higher against 6th, 7th and higher and be more confident in their skill level.




Derek,

There will always be some cases. More likely if you are looking at their performance what you see is a younger 4th dan having more athletic ability than an older 6th dan.

What you don't often see is a 4th dan having broader knowledge or teaching ability. Yes it happens.

What I do see (in and out of my organization) is a lot of low-mid dans that have begun to master their technique but struggle to pass it on to any but ideal students. I taught 3 years in my instructors' school (4th - 6th dans) and it all seemed so easy with them as back up. I've run my own school with my wife and stepson (all 3rd dans) for three years and I'm still amazed at the number of circumstances where I need to call a Master for teaching advice.
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

Top
#396308 - 05/22/08 07:51 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: TKD_X]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

...back closer to the topic at hand, if a 8th or 9th dan starts his or her own federation, i would definitely call him/her a grandmaster. i say this because not everyone can just form a federation. they need to have real skills and a line of masters that will be part of the federation. your federation will not succeed if you are doing something wrong. you would be swallowed alive by the bigger federations' popularity. i'm not saying you have to start a federation to be a grandmaster, but it is definitely a sure way to show that you are truly a pioneer and have a real understanding of the art and a true desire to continue the art as you know it.




If an 8th or 9th dan does this I agree - though I'm not sure what it would take to leave an organization at that stage. To leave as a 4th dan and declare 9th in your new style might be a little wrong though (and it happens).
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

Top
#396309 - 05/22/08 09:07 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: TKD_X]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

if a 8th or 9th dan starts his or her own federation, i would definitely call him/her a grandmaster. i say this because not everyone can just form a federation. they need to have real skills and a line of masters that will be part of the federation. your federation will not succeed if you are doing something wrong. you would be swallowed alive by the bigger federations' popularity. i'm not saying you have to start a federation to be a grandmaster, but it is definitely a sure way to show that you are truly a pioneer and have a real understanding of the art and a true desire to continue the art as you know it.




Sorry but all kinds of people start their own orgs. There is no requirement. Just look on line & in the back of any MA magazine. Buyer beware

Top
#396310 - 05/22/08 09:13 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: TKD_X]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

i think that masters have become a little less...i don't want to say valuable, but just less thought highly of. for instance back in the 90s when i first started, the only master we saw was the man with the beard and a bunch of stripes on his belt who came to tests and could help anyone break a board with just a little verbal guidance.




I think this is a rather common perception. In my day, the early 70s, there were few masters & we didn't hear the title grandmaster. Now decades later, many did make it to 4th degree or 7th degree level, so the mystique has sort of worn off. Plus if you have been around for awhile, the personal mystique would also fade.
It is now not uncommon for there to be a dozen or so masters at an ITF international instructors course. All in a dobok. In the early days, there may have been 1 or 2 that showed up, but they sat around in suits like big shots, not participating like they do today.

Top
#396311 - 05/22/08 09:16 AM Re: what does master or gand-master mean to you? [Re: jeff_andle]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

At 6th dan (at least 16 and typically 20 years) one may apply for Masters' Training (1 year) if they meet other teaching and leadership requirements.




I like this idea & would be interested in hearing more about it.

Top
#396312 - 05/22/08 09:43 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: jeff_andle]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
What makes a Master or Grand Master? I think that a “Master” is an instructor who is highly proficient in the art that they teach or represent. A “Grand Master” should be the head of that system that passes on the knowledge and expertise to all Master Instructors and juniors. He or she is the mom, dad, brother, sister to all students in the system.

If you use dan ranking to determine who is a “Master” then you can have problems. There are so many schools and Systems out there and their standards are different. I have seen and know many “Masters” and I would not train with them. They have a title and no skill or knowledge of the Martial Arts or what the meaning of integrity, honor or respect mean. I also know a few that are great Martial Artist but are poor teachers.

I guess for me a Master needs to be a great person and have great skills. They should be capable of passing on that skill and knowledge. Oh and if I need to be guided or nudged in a certain way so I can stay on the path, they are more then willing to do so. Hey, why not. Isn’t that what family’s do? In a way we all are family, right?

Top
#396313 - 05/22/08 03:13 PM Re: what does master or gand-master mean to you? [Re: ITFunity]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

Quote:

At 6th dan (at least 16 and typically 20 years) one may apply for Masters' Training (1 year) if they meet other teaching and leadership requirements.




I like this idea & would be interested in hearing more about it.




Some of the requirements to being allowed to become a Master are

tested for 6th dan.

full time instructor (4th dan requirement) with 200 active students (5th dan requirement) and a higher threshold (500? 6th dan requirement).

met all "leadership points requirements" which ammounts to:
Guest judging at other schools testings
Tournament judging
Business training.
"leadership camp" and "Protech Camp" trainings - effectively high rank training camps.

There are others that I do not know yet. The applicant is invited to apply. Accepted applicants spend several weeks of training with the Masters Council over the next year culminating in the week of fasting and training just before Worlds in mid - late June.

The four highest ranking ATA people in New England are all getting this right now, one being an applicant to Master and the three Masters being applicants to Sr. Master. They tested at Worlds last year for 6th and 7th dans. I held boards for three of the four of them.
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

Top
#396314 - 05/22/08 03:16 PM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: BulldogTKD]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

What makes a Master or Grand Master? I think that a “Master” is an instructor who is highly proficient in the art that they teach or represent. A “Grand Master” should be the head of that system that passes on the knowledge and expertise to all Master Instructors and juniors. He or she is the mom, dad, brother, sister to all students in the system.

If you use dan ranking to determine who is a “Master” then you can have problems. There are so many schools and Systems out there and their standards are different. I have seen and know many “Masters” and I would not train with them. They have a title and no skill or knowledge of the Martial Arts or what the meaning of integrity, honor or respect mean. I also know a few that are great Martial Artist but are poor teachers.

I guess for me a Master needs to be a great person and have great skills. They should be capable of passing on that skill and knowledge. Oh and if I need to be guided or nudged in a certain way so I can stay on the path, they are more then willing to do so. Hey, why not. Isn’t that what family’s do? In a way we all are family, right?




I think in many sport styles you can become a given rank without a specific teaching requirement and so i agree that Master is not automatic with rank. Ours is a teaching-centric rank system. You can be the best fighter/forms/weapons expert in all of ATA and it wn't get you rank or Mastership, etc.
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

Top
#396315 - 05/22/08 03:27 PM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: ITFunity]
TKD_X Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 786
Loc: HERE
Quote:

Quote:

i think that masters have become a little less...i don't want to say valuable, but just less thought highly of. for instance back in the 90s when i first started, the only master we saw was the man with the beard and a bunch of stripes on his belt who came to tests and could help anyone break a board with just a little verbal guidance.




I think this is a rather common perception. In my day, the early 70s, there were few masters & we didn't hear the title grandmaster. Now decades later, many did make it to 4th degree or 7th degree level, so the mystique has sort of worn off. Plus if you have been around for awhile, the personal mystique would also fade.
It is now not uncommon for there to be a dozen or so masters at an ITF international instructors course. All in a dobok. In the early days, there may have been 1 or 2 that showed up, but they sat around in suits like big shots, not participating like they do today.




after you are taught by a master the "whoa" factor does wear off a little. but then you start passing into the "whoa" territory yourself, seeking to be a good role model for younger/less experenced students. i guess that's a good thing.
_________________________
Are you ok!?!? It was an accident! No really! I promise!

Top
Page 3 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga