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#396316 - 05/22/08 03:53 PM Re: what does master or gand-master mean to you? [Re: jeff_andle]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Jeff A

I like you definition very much . Toss in OLD.... as in ANCIENT (with a side of ~FUNCTIONAL~) and I'm in!!! The grander the "title" the older one should be...

Merely my opinion I could surely be mistaken,
Jeff (Not a practitioner of my namesake's Korean Airborne Brethren's art)

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#396317 - 05/22/08 05:37 PM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: tkd_high_green]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Are you implying that I don't have my act together because I've been training for 15 years and don't call myself Master? In our sytstem Master is at 6th degree and generally takes 25-30 years to achieve. And they're still learning. If one can "master" a particular art in 10 years, my response would be that that style has a signifigantly more shallow pool of techniques to draw from. I could say I know what I've been taught up to this point extremely well. I have myself taught countless students from white through black and several to their 2nd. But, Master I am not. 28 year old Masters do not exist in our style. It's just not possible to grasp it all in that short a time frame.

My act is together, I'm just through college and starting on my MA phd. I will get there one day... far in the future.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#396318 - 05/22/08 09:01 PM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: JMWcorwin]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
It would be good if master and grandmaster corresponded to, say, phd and professor in academia. I'd like the terms demystified...
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#396319 - 05/22/08 09:35 PM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: dandjurdjevic]
TKD_X Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 786
Loc: HERE
i don't really think that they are mystified in the first place. if you go to a solid respectable school, they really shouldn't have any problem what constitutes a master or grandmaster.
_________________________
Are you ok!?!? It was an accident! No really! I promise!

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#396320 - 05/23/08 12:49 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: dandjurdjevic]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

It would be good if master and grandmaster corresponded to, say, phd and professor in academia. I'd like the terms demystified...




Okay I've done something like this before:
elementary school teaches basics = color belt ranks
high school = 1st to 3rd degree, novice BB asst instructor
college/university = 4th to 6th degree BB expert or international instructor
graduate school/masters degree 7th & 8th degree BB master
PhD - doctoral degree = grandmaster 9th degree

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#396321 - 05/23/08 08:02 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: ITFunity]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
There is absolutely no way a PhD=grandmaster. I've known PhD candidates that fast-tracked in basically 6 years. Your average BA used to be 22 years old. Add 6 years to that...28 year old 'grandmaster'?

My college professor used to tell me that getting a BA was like a funnel with the wide part on top, and getting one's MA and PhD was the inverse...study becoming increasingingly narrow and specialized. A grandmaster has breadth, and depth of knowledge, and TIME put in using it. A PhD graduates and with connections get a good job. But even with their degrees...they start at the BOTTOM!

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#396322 - 05/23/08 08:05 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: harlan]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
professor emeritus or dean perhaps.

Being a PhD (electrical engineering) I certainly think it's not the be all end all!
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

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#396323 - 05/23/08 08:09 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: jeff_andle]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Yeah. I worked as the clerk for the Dean of Civil Engineering at the University of Massachusetts. Everybody that came through the office was a PhD. No big deal in that environment. The guys that were respected within that group, oddly enough, were the ones that could write big grants. The guys that got the funding. $$$. Get the $$$, and all the requisite ancillary stuff (publicity, grad students)...and move up.

Smart guys. Couldn't figure out how to use a copy machine, or fix their car, or get their NSF papers in on time. Many were poor communicators...but being able to pass along one's knowledge wasn't really a job qualification. Most had no interest in their students' progress, and I only met one professor that stated he felt a responsibility/tie to his grad/PhD students after college. So...no. I don't think a PhD should equate at all to 'grandmaster'.

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#396324 - 05/23/08 08:51 AM Re: what does master or gand-master mean to you? [Re: jeff_andle]
Andymcc Offline
Member

Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 123
Loc: Rochester NY, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

At 6th dan (at least 16 and typically 20 years) one may apply for Masters' Training (1 year) if they meet other teaching and leadership requirements.




I like this idea & would be interested in hearing more about it.




Some of the requirements to being allowed to become a Master are

tested for 6th dan.

full time instructor (4th dan requirement) with 200 active students (5th dan requirement) and a higher threshold (500? 6th dan requirement).






This is absolutely rediculous. This implies that being a "master" means how business-savy you are. Being a good enough businessman that you have acquired 200+ students is a requirement for "master"?? If that is the case I would seriously question your organization.
That has nothing at all to do with knowledge and skill of TKD, which is what a master of TKD is.

It would also lead to a fast-food style approach to running a dojang, a McDojang if you will. Recruiting and promoting to do what it takes to keep students happy, so that your numbers build, so you can hit that magic number of 200... so you can (Whooo hoooooo) be called a "master".
Pretty sad IMO. I would seriously question any organization where that is a requirement to be called "master".

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#396325 - 05/23/08 09:23 AM Re: what does master or grand-master mean to you? [Re: harlan]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Quote:

There is absolutely no way a PhD=grandmaster. I've known PhD candidates that fast-tracked in basically 6 years. Your average BA used to be 22 years old. Add 6 years to that...28 year old 'grandmaster'?

My college professor used to tell me that getting a BA was like a funnel with the wide part on top, and getting one's MA and PhD was the inverse...study becoming increasingingly narrow and specialized. A grandmaster has breadth, and depth of knowledge, and TIME put in using it. A PhD graduates and with connections get a good job. But even with their degrees...they start at the BOTTOM!




Good point. I was thinking grandmaster would be more like a professor. But probably same issue.
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http://www.dandjurdjevic.com/

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