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#395546 - 05/20/08 12:54 PM Re: what to do [Re: oldman]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Penguin, I have no personal experience with the ATA so for myself let's take that out of the equation and talk solely about the learning aspect.

First and foremost you want to be in a school where you are able to learn and continue to learn. In a school I think you have more ability to grow then at the local YMCA with a part time person teaching. In a school there is a lot of support whereas at the "Y" there may not be as it sounds from interpreting the above posts.

The next thing is to be realistic, how long do you plan to train ... short term or long term? Be honest, how long will your wife and kids train? Chances are you will train longer then your wife and kids so go to a place where you can train and let them train in the other atmosphere. If they decide to stick with it then have them join you in a more structured atmosphere. If they decide to quit then no biggy as you will already be at the school where as if you joined them and they quit you'd have perhaps seen it as time wasted time as you were only doing it for them.

I don't think it is selfish to think of yourself in this case. You are training for "you" not them and where it would be nice to train with your family it is not necessary if your wife is okay with it. This is just my opinion.

Not the same but an example; I go to a different dentist then my wife and daughter do. They like their dentist and I like mine. My wife and daughter are Catholic and I am not. My wife and I have different political beliefs. My wife and daughter like watching soaps; I don't. For all of the differences we have no problem coexisting and realize that we don't have to do everything together to be a family.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#395547 - 05/20/08 10:02 PM Re: what to do [Re: Dereck]
penquin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Kimberly, WI, USA
Thank you oldman, I did not know that.
Thank you Dereck, I like how you put that. My wife said she may want to join my school for the structure. Her classes seem to be based on self-defense which is what she wants, but she also wants satisfaction of achieving of a belt. She tests for her yellow next week and she doesn't feel as if she is deserving it.
_________________________
being smarter then the average man, my mistakes tend to be worse then the average man

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#395548 - 05/20/08 11:04 PM Re: what to do [Re: penquin]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
ATA! Based on self defense??? !!!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#395549 - 05/21/08 07:41 AM Re: what to do [Re: VDJ]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

Side note to Jeff: This is not an attack on the ATA, this is my HONEST OPINION OF ACTUAL EXPERIENECES I HAVE HAD WITH ATA SCHOOLS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

VDJ




I know there are a lot of ATA schools that don't exactly meet the goals of the organization. By a lot I mean total numbers, not percentage. Take my word for it that the staff in Little Rock treats them the same way you treat a trouble student - you work with them up to a point and you congratulate them on their choice of a new carreer/training path after a point. At the end of the day though, they are independently owned and operated and the recertification process every three years is the primary filter to prevent this.

The percentage of bad schools is probably lower than in the general rank and file but they stick out because they're all the same organization. I am sure I'd seen such statistics but cannot reference them.

Clearly with independents you still get the great ones and the "why bothers". I compete (economically) against an independent karate school that's been there 20 years and the instructor is very well known. I have also watched several come and go in the three years my place has been open.

(note: ATA did allow a full certification at 1st dan but to get that required a boatload of dedication. My partner and I got ours as 2nd dan and it was a major major effort. Maybe they changed that in the past three years?)

We can talk offline about a few places I'd put on your visit list depending on what you enjoy most. You need to realize though that you're a high rank and the schools are facilities where high ranks TEACH at the level of their students.

Maybe I can get you registered at a National or International training event?

I think you would have enjoyed last weekend in the woods of NH with four 7th dan, 1 6th dan, 2 5th dan, and half a dozen 4th dan instructors. Instead of being "school owner" I was merely the 4th or 5th highest ranked student in a group of 125 or so.

But, i digress...
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

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#395550 - 05/21/08 07:48 AM Re: what to do [Re: BrianS]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

ATA! Based on self defense??? !!!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!




OK Brian, you can laugh all you want but until you've taken groundfighting with Sr. Master Arcemont, joint lock with Senior Master Minton, jhang bong with Master Langoria, etc., etc., or foolishly tried to attack Chief Master G.K. Lee (responsible for the protech curriculum) you are way off base.
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

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#395551 - 05/21/08 07:49 AM Re: what to do [Re: BrianS]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

ATA! Based on self defense??? !!!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!




And he said her YMCA class was based on self defense... white belt reading skills working for you are they?
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

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#395552 - 05/21/08 09:08 AM Re: what to do [Re: jeff_andle]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#395553 - 05/21/08 10:06 AM Re: what to do [Re: BrianS]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
I am saying that ATA teaches groundfighting at higher levels and not in each and every school. I know this for a fact whereas you merely make uninformed digs.

A video of a kids yellow belt forms testing (block testing makes them white - yellow belts and 2-9 months into TKD)??? Would you trash MIT by showing a Boston kindergarten class?

A video of some very skilled XMA girls??? I understand not respecting XMA - it took me 2 years to deign to try it and one year to injure myself and break two toothpick bo's to decide it's not for 44 year old men over 250 pounds... OK, so you don't respect XMA. Good for you. That related to groundfighting or to ATA how? (other than that ATA teaches both).

So you don't like a belt color that honors America's servicemen. Good for you. How exactly does that relate to ATA and groundfighting?

So you don't respect point sparring. What's new? I assure you that in the New England region's 40-49 2nd & 3rd degree ring at least, point sparring borders full contact. I won't suggest that half the 2000+ competitors that sparred at that tourny would, be able to or should be allowed to spar under your rules, but you should consider that the other half could and a good number of them might just amase you. In any case, what does that have to do with groundfighting?

Again, you showed an XMA form with the escrimas.

My opinion of you started low and is diminishing. You seem only able to tear down that which is good in a feeble attempt to hold your own head high. This is all sad, because I've reason to believe you are quite accomplished and have earned respect.
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

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#395554 - 05/21/08 10:50 AM Re: what to do [Re: jeff_andle]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I am saying that ATA teaches groundfighting at higher levels and not in each and every school. I know this for a fact whereas you merely make uninformed digs.





First I heard of it. I hope they didn't get their groundfighting from their forms,lol. Where did they learn their groundfighting? What groundfighting art did they train in? Care to post a video if you have one?

Quote:

A video of a kids yellow belt forms testing (block testing makes them white - yellow belts and 2-9 months into TKD)??? Would you trash MIT by showing a Boston kindergarten class?





No. Good point.

Quote:

A video of some very skilled XMA girls??? I understand not respecting XMA - it took me 2 years to deign to try it and one year to injure myself and break two toothpick bo's to decide it's not for 44 year old men over 250 pounds... OK, so you don't respect XMA. Good for you. That related to groundfighting or to ATA how? (other than that ATA teaches both).





Other than the ATA teaches it? What more do you want? They teach it,groundfighting,forms, nunchaku,kama's, and the bo. The ATA is Prego!!!

Quote:

So you don't like a belt color that honors America's servicemen. Good for you. How exactly does that relate to ATA and groundfighting?






I'm a veteran, don't give me that crap. A camoflage belt in ata mcdojo's does not honor anything or anyone. It just makes a mockery of martial arts and is just one more belt they can charge testing for along with the 13 others they already have,lol. Do they donate the testing proceeds to the military?

Quote:

So you don't respect point sparring. What's new? I assure you that in the New England region's 40-49 2nd & 3rd degree ring at least, point sparring borders full contact. I won't suggest that half the 2000+ competitors that sparred at that tourny would, be able to or should be allowed to spar under your rules, but you should consider that the other half could and a good number of them might just amase you. In any case, what does that have to do with groundfighting?





I'm still looking for the self defense aspect of the ATA. The groundfighting came in where in the ATA?

Quote:

My opinion of you started low and is diminishing. You seem only able to tear down that which is good in a feeble attempt to hold your own head high. This is all sad, because I've reason to believe you are quite accomplished and have earned respect.




Thank you Jeff. I respect your views and posts as well.
I'm not trying to tear them down to make myself feel better. I'm trying to expose places that claim to teach self defense when they clearly do not. They are selling false confidence which will get people hurt,or worse.
I know I'm coming off harsh,but I do feel strongly about this. The ata is all about money.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#395555 - 05/21/08 11:11 AM Re: what to do [Re: jeff_andle]
penquin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Kimberly, WI, USA
Jeff he is playing rock, paper, scissors with Martial arts. It looks like he thinks ground fighting is be-all end-all best MA. That "rock" can still be covered by "paper" Remember in Boxing and most full contact sports being on the ground usually shows that you are about to lose.( I could be wrong)
As far as Camo belts think of it this way, that is the highest belt in the Armed forces Judo in which I have one(it used to be black as the highest) Those of us whom have served, and received injuries do not appreciate that kind of disrespect.
_________________________
being smarter then the average man, my mistakes tend to be worse then the average man

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