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#395536 - 05/19/08 03:03 PM Re: what to do [Re: penquin]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Whatever you do. Get yourself and your family away from the ATA.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#395537 - 05/19/08 03:04 PM Re: what to do [Re: dandjurdjevic]
penquin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Kimberly, WI, USA
harlan I goto ATA school. Wife and kids goto YMCA Martial Arts. The ATA is known for being extremely sympathetic to people with challenges, such as mine. Both of the instructors are understanding.
_________________________
being smarter then the average man, my mistakes tend to be worse then the average man

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#395538 - 05/19/08 03:30 PM Re: what to do [Re: penquin]
TKD_X Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 786
Loc: HERE
Quote:

harlan I goto ATA school. Wife and kids goto YMCA Martial Arts. The ATA is known for being extremely sympathetic to people with challenges, such as mine. Both of the instructors are understanding.




and the YMCA isn't?
_________________________
Are you ok!?!? It was an accident! No really! I promise!

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#395539 - 05/19/08 11:39 PM Re: what to do [Re: BrianS]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
Quote:

Whatever you do. Get yourself and your family away from the ATA.




DITTO!

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#395540 - 05/20/08 01:00 AM Re: what to do [Re: penquin]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

I decided to go back for my black belt. I found an ATA school with a good teacher. I verbally said I want to join. I have yet signed papers. Legally I am not bound, but ethically I am. My wife's, son's, and daughter's instructor wants me to join with him; because of my home instruction they are really good for their level. I just figured out how to keep the kids occupied for the classes if I did join, but I feel I owe it to the ATA instructor to stay with him. The gas prices being high I want to join my families instructor, and the price of their instructor is cheaper then the ATA instructor.

My main goals are to obtain a black belt and lose weight to get my surgery for my hernia. I can do both at either location.

I am so confused




Penguin,

As an ATA school owner and as the guy that pointed you that way, I have to say this. ATA is all about families and you should train with yours. Join them or move them. If they are not far into it and are willing to even consider a switch then ask your instructor his family rate. If it's not a winning rate or they won't switch, you do.

Still gas will only get worse and it sounds like you'd be in a better place family-wise to make the switch instead.
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

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#395541 - 05/20/08 07:51 AM Re: what to do [Re: BrianS]
penquin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Kimberly, WI, USA
BrianS said
Quote:

Whatever you do. Get yourself and your family away from the ATA.




why? are they so bad? their forms are easy yet challenging to learn. The sparring is fun and fast paced(great aerobic workout) The whole thing is more structured to what is expected for each belt level. The Instructors have instructors to turn to for reference, They promote continued learning for the instructors, and not dependent on just their own knowledge. My wife will "kill" me for buying the ata sparring gear and not go there.

I know they are known to be like a "McDojo", but wouldn't it be better for the students to have a leader who shows them that just because you have a black belt you still have a lot to learn? Several non "McDojos" are with instructors whom think that now that they are black belts they don't need to learn anymore. I read in the ATA literature that they do not authorize a black belt to instruct on their own until they are at least 3rd degree. Before then they have to assist for around 2-3 years. They also prefer owners to be at least 4th degree or higher. They seem to want qualified instructors not just some schmuck with a black belt. (I am not saying that the Y instructor is schmuck, but he has no higher ups as I know it)
_________________________
being smarter then the average man, my mistakes tend to be worse then the average man

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#395542 - 05/20/08 07:59 AM Re: what to do [Re: penquin]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Don't listen to BrianS. He's a Goju guy, anyway.

I don't see your problem. Discuss your options with your family, make up your mind, and go for it. From reading your previous threads, it seems you have a clear idea of what you want, and getting people to discuss the merits/negatives of some unknown ATA school won't do you any good.

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#395543 - 05/20/08 09:18 AM Re: what to do [Re: penquin]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1671
Quote:

BrianS said
Quote:

Whatever you do. Get yourself and your family away from the ATA.




why? are they so bad? their forms are easy yet challenging to learn. The sparring is fun and fast paced(great aerobic workout) The whole thing is more structured to what is expected for each belt level. The Instructors have instructors to turn to for reference, They promote continued learning for the instructors, and not dependent on just their own knowledge. My wife will "kill" me for buying the ata sparring gear and not go there.

I know they are known to be like a "McDojo", but wouldn't it be better for the students to have a leader who shows them that just because you have a black belt you still have a lot to learn? Several non "McDojos" are with instructors whom think that now that they are black belts they don't need to learn anymore. I read in the ATA literature that they do not authorize a black belt to instruct on their own until they are at least 3rd degree. Before then they have to assist for around 2-3 years. They also prefer owners to be at least 4th degree or higher. They seem to want qualified instructors not just some schmuck with a black belt. (I am not saying that the Y instructor is schmuck, but he has no higher ups as I know it)




Have you ever been to an ITF or WTF school? Though I know they exist, I have found it VERY rare that any martial art school is operated by anything less than a 3rd dan (though I have come across tactical SD instructors that could put alot 5th dans to shame). It has been my personal experience that the ATA schools I have visited were less than competent in their instruction, with lots of "Kiddy" BB's. Their philosophy is sound but I have experienced their abilities are not. And I have not come across to many BB's who think they know it all, though I have come across some newbies that do believe that.

Side note to Jeff: This is not an attack on the ATA, this is my HONEST OPINION OF ACTUAL EXPERIENECES I HAVE HAD WITH ATA SCHOOLS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

VDJ

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#395544 - 05/20/08 10:35 AM Re: what to do [Re: harlan]
penquin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Kimberly, WI, USA
Quote:

Don't listen to BrianS. He's a Goju guy, anyway.

I don't see your problem. Discuss your options with your family, make up your mind, and go for it. From reading your previous threads, it seems you have a clear idea of what you want, and getting people to discuss the merits/negatives of some unknown ATA school won't do you any good.



I think the main problem is that my wife wants me in the ATA school for the fact that they are known to be accepting of people with disabilities, and that I would be in the same class as she and higher ranking. She thinks I would lord over her by trying to help her "to much". She probably thinks my idea of keeping the kids occupied during class (letting them watch a dvd on our portable dvd player) won't work all the time (she might be right).

I was speaking in general of ATA schools. Again according to the literature I have read, they are all same transferring from one school to the next is easy(probably why people think they are a "McDojo") I apologize for the discussion of the merits/negatives of some unknown ATA school. I was merely explaining what I have observed from a couple of schools I have seen or heard of. All of the schools around here are owned by 3degree or higher.
_________________________
being smarter then the average man, my mistakes tend to be worse then the average man

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#395545 - 05/20/08 12:01 PM Re: what to do [Re: penquin]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Quote:

I read in the ATA literature that they do not authorize a black belt to instruct on their own until they are at least 3rd degree. Before then they have to assist for around 2-3 years.




They may not authorize to teach until 3rd dan but the requirements to own a license are as follows from the ATA website.

Quote:

There are actually two types of ATA licenses you can be granted:

A School licensee is person who has a full-time operation meaning that it is open 11 or more hours per week. It must also be an independent business (not part of another facility). &#8232;

A Club licensee is person who has a part-time operation that is open less than 10 hours per week. It MUST be part of another facility, such as a fitness club, recreation center or business of that nature.

There are a couple Basic Requirements to receive a license:

You must be an actively training member of the ATA

You must be at least a First Degree Black Belt

Eighteen years old

Minimum Level 2 certified instructor

Potential licensees are required to attend a three-day business class at ATA Headquarters before any license can be granted.

We ask that you seek the guidance and the knowledge your senior instructor has to offer.






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