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#395363 - 05/15/08 06:13 AM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: Cord]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Who Darths wins
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#395364 - 05/15/08 11:24 AM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: Cord]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Quote:

What do these people expect? They are Jedi and who is their arch rival ... Darth Vader. So for Darth Vader to go over there and to kick some ass they should have no problems. Why didn't they use the force to save their butts? Big bunch of losers.




I dont think thats fair- i mean, if there were gangs of drunks dressed as Satan invading christian churches to beat up the worshippers, no one would be saying 'they got what they asked for', except maybe me, but I am warped and would find that highly amusing




Cord, of all people don't you find this humorous? Christianity that has been handed down generation after generation and that is recognized as an actual religion is one thing and people dressing up like Satan would be horrible. However Jedis? That was a movie and basing a religion on that deserves to have your ass kicked for even being affiliated with it. Stupid people deserve to have stupid things done to them ... in a humorous way for sure.
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#395365 - 05/16/08 08:36 AM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: Dereck]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:


Cord, of all people don't you find this humorous? Christianity that has been handed down generation after generation and that is recognized as an actual religion is one thing and people dressing up like Satan would be horrible. However Jedis? That was a movie and basing a religion on that deserves to have your ass kicked for even being affiliated with it. Stupid people deserve to have stupid things done to them ... in a humorous way for sure.




The only thing that seperates a cult from a religion is the power and the influence of those who believe. Chloramidians or the holy trinity, its all equally plausable to me.
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#395366 - 05/16/08 02:43 PM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: Dereck]
rideonlythelabel Offline
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Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: st-hubert quebec canada
Quote:

What do these people expect? They are Jedi and who is their arch rival ... Darth Vader. So for Darth Vader to go over there and to kick some ass they should have no problems. Why didn't they use the force to save their butts? Big bunch of losers.





Yes, but Dereck, if stupidity was ground for assault, you wouldn't spend a day out of the hospital.

More seriously; I agree that the Star Wars religion is ridiculous, it's not a good reason to beat someone up.

I like that he used the classic "I don't remember it, so it didn't happen" defense. It might work with your mates and your girlfriend, but I doubt the judge was impressed.
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#395367 - 05/16/08 02:48 PM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: rideonlythelabel]
trevek Offline
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Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Probably not, but it might have got him a lighter sentence than, "I knew what I was doing and I wanted to kick jedi butt!"
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#395368 - 05/17/08 06:08 AM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: Cord]
Tashigae Offline
Mister Bendy

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
Disclaimer: this is not a religious post.

Quote:

The only thing that seperates a cult from a religion is the power and the influence of those who believe. Chloramidians or the holy trinity, its all equally plausable to me.



Cord, that's a pragmatically true statement, but I question the competence of pragmaticism when it comes to defining any system of thought.

What I mean is, a human being is pragmatically a heap of organic matter in which a crapload of complex processes are going on, but the thing that really makes it what it it to us hasn't been found a chemical nor physical existence so far. I don't treat human beings as mere lumps of organic matter (and neither do you), because I sense/believe/been taught that there is more to my fellow humans than their chemical and physical nature.

I think the same goes for religions (I have utmost respect for the sacred, no matter what religion).

You mention plausibility: religions aren't about plausibility. They are a "technology", whose working mechanics involve simple belief at the lower levels and some more complex processes at the higher levels, and whose goal is usually what Christianity terms "salvation" at the lower levels (I won't discuss the true nature of what lies behind this term, that would take pages) and bona fide enlightenment at the higher levels.

Star Wars is a technology whose working mechanics involve a few hours of conditional belief, and whose goal is entertainment.

There's a lot more to both religion AND Star Wars than their mere chemical and physical nature (just ask a fan of either ).

That being said, I naturally cannot condone the uncalled-for violence undergone by those jedi-wannabes, no matter what hilarious form the said violence took.

All I'll say is, if I see a guy dressed as Darth Vader walking into a "jedi church", it will draw nothing from me but a good laugh. If I see a guy dressed as a representation of Satan walking into a church/mosque/synagogue/temple, chances are I'm going to try and stop him. I just hate desacration in any form.

Imagine a guy clad in an SS uniform walking into a jewish cemetary. Pragmatically that's just another human being, covered in clothes with somewhat the same chemical nature as any other clothes, just with a certain configuration of shape and colours out of a virtual infinity of other configurations. Yet I bet you that pretty much any of even the most militant atheists would object to that.

As always, JMHO.


PS. Since you mentioned Satan, here's an amusing fact: before this one, my post count was 666. This is the post that killed the beast!
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#395369 - 05/17/08 08:27 AM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: Tashigae]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Interesting post.

Quote:

Imagine a guy clad in an SS uniform walking into a jewish cemetary.




Like Sid Vicious in the Paris Jewish quarter in a swastika t-shirt, or Keith Moon in an SS uniform in Golders Green.

I get the point but technically that isn't a religion thing, it is based on racism and ethnic hatred. Ironically a devout Orthodox Jew might object to someone wearing/carrying a cross into a Jewish cemetery.

Getting back to the lighter side a little... these guys could be made now. They are, perhaps, officially the first martyrs of Jedi-ism.
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#395370 - 05/17/08 10:01 AM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: Tashigae]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Quote:

The only thing that seperates a cult from a religion is the power and the influence of those who believe. Chloramidians or the holy trinity, its all equally plausable to me.



Cord, that's a pragmatically true statement, but I question the competence of pragmaticism when it comes to defining any system of thought.

What I mean is, a human being is pragmatically a heap of organic matter in which a crapload of complex processes are going on, but the thing that really makes it what it it to us hasn't been found a chemical nor physical existence so far. I don't treat human beings as mere lumps of organic matter (and neither do you), because I sense/believe/been taught that there is more to my fellow humans than their chemical and physical nature.




Sorry, but I truly do not see humans as above or different to any other organism on the planet- I dont think we have greater rights than a rabbit, nor are we superior. A rabbit cant build a truck, and a human cannot instinctively build a warren of tunnels with their bare hands with the skill of a rabbit, nor can we outrun a lurcher.

Quote:

I think the same goes for religions (I have utmost respect for the sacred, no matter what religion).




Why? Organised religion is used by believers as a tool to make sense of the world and what they experience. It is used by government as a tool of control. Church and state are inextricably linked.
Jehovah, Mohammed, Buddah, the earth mother, The big bang, the force. Name your poison and pick a flavour, as long as it gives you the desired security in the random crapshoot of life, then it is as valid as anyone elses 'night time blanky'

Quote:

Star Wars is a technology whose working mechanics involve a few hours of conditional belief, and whose goal is entertainment.




And scientology was created by a (bad) sci-fi writer as a bet with a friend that he couldnt develop a religion by targetting pychological components of belief. Now messing with people on that scale is entertainment

Quote:

There's a lot more to both religion AND Star Wars than their mere chemical and physical nature (just ask a fan of either ).




Fan: abbreviation of fanatic. Which, in todays climate, causes more misery- fanaticism of Star wars, or of religious dogma?

Quote:

All I'll say is, if I see a guy dressed as Darth Vader walking into a "jedi church", it will draw nothing from me but a good laugh. If I see a guy dressed as a representation of Satan walking into a church/mosque/synagogue/temple, chances are I'm going to try and stop him. I just hate desacration in any form.




The concepts that lie behind Jedi philosophy are actually taken directly from eastern martial philosphy, and zen. A kid sitting in seiza trying to empty their heads to be at one with 'the force', is practicing zen meditation under a different name. The process, and even the goal is practically identicle. Name your poison, pick a flavour.

Quote:

Imagine a guy clad in an SS uniform walking into a jewish cemetary. Pragmatically that's just another human being, covered in clothes with somewhat the same chemical nature as any other clothes, just with a certain configuration of shape and colours out of a virtual infinity of other configurations. Yet I bet you that pretty much any of even the most militant atheists would object to that.




It is the law of the internet that any topic that evokes strong reactions will inevitably end up using Nazism in an analogy, even when it has little/nothing to do with what is being discussed.

OK, I will play. Whilst the above scenario would be an act intended to upset and shock, it would not cause any direct distress to the occupants of the graveyard- they are either just plain dead, or in the rapture of a good afterlife, or the misery of a bad one. Any way you cut it, they are otherwise pre-occupied.
That leaves us, the living to act on their behalf.
You know that wierd family church who picket war funerals with signs saying the dead soldiers are gay and in hell and all that nonsense? Thats what it is- nonsense. They adore it when they upset people- they get off on it. They are RL trolls; and a guy goose-stepping around a war memorial would be the same- just an idiot. Remove the outrage and you remove his power.

My opinions are not humble, they are my religion- I seek to make sense of the world for myself. If I get 30,000 people who see it my way, then I will have a codified religion. Cords 10 commandments- stranger things have happened.


Edited by Cord (05/17/08 10:06 AM)
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#395371 - 05/17/08 11:19 AM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: Cord]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Can we start a Church of Cord? We can be Cordites.

It wouldn't be like the name was taken from a character in a philosophical MA film.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#395372 - 05/17/08 11:37 AM Re: May the Force arrest you [Re: trevek]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

It wouldn't be like the name was taken from a character in a philosophical MA film.




Best. MA film. Everrr.
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