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#395115 - 05/27/08 09:52 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: dandjurdjevic]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:


If you don't think you're going to slow down a bit with age, you're dead wrong.
And I'm still going despite Crohns disease when most people I know in the same boat have given up



I give my respect for that.
I am not a medical practioner but to the best of my knowledge people with the disease still weight train.
Quote:


. So what can you do about illness? Modify your training...



All due respect modified training could still have all the elements required. With in reason.
For trad karate training.
Quote:


I'm interested in discussing further your drills.




Ok

If you pm me with an email address that would be fine.

Jude

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#395116 - 05/27/08 10:12 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: dandjurdjevic]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
The shisochin application (palm strike, kick deflection) I was referring to occurs at around 0:27 of the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tL9rGeKZGU.
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#395117 - 05/27/08 10:24 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: jude33]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
I still weight train Jude - when I can.

But I don't rely on my "youthful vigour" in my martial arts. My training/fighting involves more emphasis on technique, less on strength.

My conditioning is now more health oriented, less strength-for-fighting oriented.

It is an internal approach - not an external one. You've already indicated that you don't share my interest in Chinese influence. My Chinese influence is principally from the internal/soft arts of xingyiquan, baguazhang and taijiquan. I believe the older one gets, the more one should move to "softer" arts. But I know this isn't everyone's view.

You strike me as a "dyed in the wool" external artist - and that is fine. Neither is better nor worse. But I have my reasons for moving into the internal arts and changing my goju accordingly, and that is my sincerely held belief that "pure" external/hard technique (if there is such a thing) only gets you so far, then you peak and go downhill, where a gradual move to "softer" arts lets you continue to improve into your older age despite the failing body.

Chen Pan-Ling said that the goal of every external artist was to become "softer", while the goal of every internal artist was to become "harder". It is my view that every effective martial artist ends up in the middle - a balance of go and ju.

Do you need the internal Chinese arts to get there? Arguably not. This is my chosen method, however it must be seen in the context of almost 3 decades of goju training anyway - and in the context of my illness. Goju can become "softer" as many of the great masters have amply demonstrated.

I have a suspicion that you are not without "soft" techniques yourself and that very likely we are talking semantics.
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#395118 - 05/27/08 11:06 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: dandjurdjevic]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:





You strike me as a "dyed in the wool" external artist - and that is fine. Neither is better nor worse. But I have my reasons for moving into the internal arts and changing my goju accordingly, and that is my sincerely held belief that "pure" external/hard technique (if there is such a thing) only gets you so far, then you peak and go downhill, where a gradual move to "softer" arts lets you continue to improve into your older age despite the failing body.

Chen Pan-Ling said that the goal of every external artist was to become "softer", while the goal of every internal artist was to become "harder". It is my view that every effective martial artist ends up in the middle - a balance of go and ju.

Do you need the internal Chinese arts to get there? Arguably not. This is my chosen method, however it must be seen in the context of almost 3 decades of goju training anyway - and in the context of my illness. Goju can become "softer" as many of the great masters have amply demonstrated.

I have a suspicion that you are not without "soft" techniques yourself and that very likely we are talking semantics.




Getting there with the softer techniques.
Also I was trying to work out an uechi ryu kata that is said to be purely based on the internal arts but the practioner is 70 plus and also has a very external extreme conditioning art basis. But that was purely observational.
Still working on that one and asking questions.

The video of sparring you posted. Was that restricted to certain techniques? I know it was relaxed sparring but my brain was seeing openings for

redirecting limbs, grab/ joint /strikes/attacks,
trapping and strikes
pure strikes
redirect the limbs and strike,
sweeps,
takedowns,
kicks to the inside/ outside thighs/ shins/ stomping on toes. Kicks to the groin.
drop knees and pin to downed opponents plus all kinds of things.
Pulling/ redirecting the person off the centre line centre and off balance.
All kinds of techniques.
All done in a relaxed fashion and no injury to the uke.
Jude


Edited by jude33 (05/27/08 11:13 AM)

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#395119 - 05/27/08 11:13 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: harlan]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:

I must have missed this. Could you please point to the post containing the demo referenced?

thank you

Quote:

Certain other so called goju teachers who claim years in the study wont post their findings, and even have the gall to critiscise the work of a demonstration drill from a high ranking 10 th dan Okinawan goju ryu stylist when to me they clearly dont even know








I think he's trying to refer to me, only I didn't criticize anyone's drills, I brought up Taira sensei's drills and other people on the forums objections to them in a previous post, not my own. He doesn't like me because i've put him on the spot and asked him to actually explain his background in Goju, which apparently morphs daily. This is classic Jude33, makes some confusing unqualified statements then go hide for a while, then come back and do it again.

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#395120 - 05/27/08 11:17 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: Zach_Zinn]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Oh...thank you for the clarification. I can see one not wanting to cite one's teachers (if they are living and it's private practice....I don't for that reason anyway). But since everyone in goju generally gets to the point of knowing the 'strains'/lines...it certainly helps to reference that at least???

Then again...get 10 goju guys in a room to show bunkai...and guaranteed 9 of them are wrong.

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#395121 - 05/27/08 11:22 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: dandjurdjevic]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:


Maybe lots of people feel this way, hence the less than ideal bunkai. I've also noticed people modifying their kata to match their (mistaken views on) bunkai till you get a move vastly different from that in the "standard" kata of IOGKF, Jundokan, Goju kai etc.





No, if I wanted to learn more for Sanseiryu I could, I just find it out of my range of practice right now to focus on the kata. I actually have seen a very good application for this technique in particular in Sanseiryu, I don't know how to call it other than to say it's interpeted sometimes as a type of takedown you see commonly in Goju kata, with a little variation from the standard.

Sorry to sound obnoxious here, but as you know who I train with, I am very comfortable which almost everything i've been shown in terms of bunkai. While I definitely appreciate your alternative view, I doubt we are gonna convince one another of the other's viewpoints on this subject exactly.

I will take a look at the article later, what little I glanced at looked interesting


Edited by Zach_Zinn (05/27/08 11:27 AM)

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#395122 - 05/27/08 11:22 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: Zach_Zinn]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539

Zack. Polite request.
How about you get off my case in a personal manner?. Have you heard of PM?
My back ground in goju or indeed in karate is my affair.
If it is something to do with the topic or something I wrote technical then fine. Comment away.
If you would like to prove something then as I said lets hear it about the kata content other wise stay away from the personal stuff.

Thanks

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#395123 - 05/27/08 11:25 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: jude33]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:


Zack. Polite request.
How about you get off my case in a personal manner?. Have you heard of PM?
My back ground in goju or indeed in karate is my affair.
If it is something to do with the topic or something I wrote technical then fine. Comment away.
If you would like to prove something then as I said lets hear it about the kata content other wise stay away from the personal stuff.

Thanks




Sure, how about you do the same and stop making vague allusions to me and other people in all your posts? Not fair to come crying when you seem to be guilty of the same thing.

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#395124 - 05/27/08 11:29 AM Re: Kata Embu [Re: jude33]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
No restrictions Jude - but every student and every bout is different, depending also on the day, purpose etc. That's just a small selection from years ago. Sweeps are common, but when I was asked to cobble together that sparring video recently I couldn't find any decent sweeps on video for dojo sparring.
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