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#394713 - 05/11/08 07:15 AM My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kung
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
My belief is that Qi can be used when fighting, i think it's merely reaching inside yourself and drawing strength, stamina or perhaps speed.
_________________________
Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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#394714 - 05/11/08 03:34 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: The_Master]
Seiken Offline
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Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 131
Loc: USA
By that definition then why use the term Qi ?

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#394715 - 05/11/08 04:24 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: Seiken]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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#394716 - 05/12/08 02:02 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: MattJ]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
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Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
idk, that's just what it is, internal energy. (or so i believe)
_________________________
Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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#394717 - 05/12/08 10:54 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: The_Master]
cxt Offline
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Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Master

So internal energy is just strength, stamina and speed?

Then as Seiken has already pointed out--why bother with another word?

Makes little sense.
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I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#394718 - 05/13/08 02:03 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: cxt]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
uhhh i don't truly know what Qi is. but i believe it's just internal energy being controlled in a way that allows you to boost your performance (like drugs, lol)
_________________________
Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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#394719 - 05/13/08 05:35 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: The_Master]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

uhhh i don't truly know what Qi is. but i believe it's just internal energy being controlled in a way that allows you to boost your performance (like drugs, lol)




Known meaning of the word chi/ qi= energy.

The rest is for others to explain.

Like drugs to boost performance? You wouldnt be comparing chi to PDE5 inhibitors at all would you? If so I doubt if there is any provable evidence. If there were teachers of chi would be worth a fortune.


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#394720 - 05/13/08 05:44 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: jude33]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
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My 'opinion' of Qi, is that it is mere internal energy that can be used....when fighting to increase performance. maybe i should 'try' it out.
_________________________
Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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#394721 - 05/13/08 06:10 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: The_Master]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

My 'opinion' of Qi, is that it is mere internal energy that can be used....when fighting to increase performance. maybe i should 'try' it out.




If someone in the gym stated that to me what would I say?

Here is what I would say;

Just like that? Think chi?

Do you mean go and find a place (some where) that you know you would have to defend your self? Not a clever move?


Imagination might increase performance that a person would be physicaly capable of in the first place.

But either way physical restrictions will limit what ever a person is doing.

So I suggest go running first, or run faster and farther.
Then its creating a training plan.

Then forget fighting unless it is competition and train.
While your training think about chi, but it is not recomend giving it to much thought while sparring.

Then carry on with my reps.
Jude

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#394722 - 05/13/08 06:15 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: jude33]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
I actually mention Qi in a novel i'm currently working on, so i thought i'd get some feedback. perhaps it is not Qi i'm using when i draw on strength after a 5km run, it may just be believing in something so strongly, that your body believes it too.
_________________________
Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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#394723 - 05/13/08 06:33 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: The_Master]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I actually mention Qi in a novel i'm currently working on, so i thought i'd get some feedback. perhaps it is not Qi i'm using when i draw on strength after a 5km run, it may just be believing in something so strongly, that your body believes it too.




You can believe as much as you want to. If the physical capabities arent there in the first place it wouldnt work.
If someone can will themselves to do more, and they do more, then the physical capabilities were there in the first place. The will pushed the body further than the mind would allow.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (05/13/08 06:36 AM)

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#394724 - 05/13/08 02:27 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: jude33]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
What an interesting concept of qi. How hard do you think tai-chi people push themselves?

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#394725 - 05/14/08 03:36 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: puffadder]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
when i want strength i get it from 'QI' *said in full-on Chinese accent*. or maybe it's just will, who knows?
_________________________
Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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#394726 - 05/14/08 08:44 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: The_Master]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Please for goodness sake just find an instructor and start training already. Sitting in your room speculating on what the martial arts and its various terms are isn't going to get you any closer to knowing anything. Start training then develop your "opinion".
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#394727 - 05/14/08 07:04 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: puffadder]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

What an interesting concept of qi. How hard do you think tai-chi people push themselves?



What would you say is your concept?
From my studies
Qi exists as a definition of energy. That is provable. There are different types and causes of energy. ATP being one of them.


I should imagine some push themselves quite hard. On the other hand perhaps some dont. If they do then physical capabilities will increase. Why specificly about Tai chi?

Jude

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#394728 - 05/14/08 07:08 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: The_Master]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

when i want strength i get it from 'QI' *said in full-on Chinese accent*. or maybe it's just will, who knows?




Strength to do what? What exactly do you do with it?
Are you talking mental strength? physical strength? or power?

Jude

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#394729 - 05/15/08 02:11 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: jude33]
On_a_Rampage Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 2
The_Master: a d1ck


Edited by Cord (05/15/08 07:14 AM)

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#394730 - 05/15/08 06:52 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: jude33]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Jude, as someone who studied TKD and wrestling I eventually came to Tai Chi.

My first ten minutes of my first class my muscles were screaming, and all I had to do was stand still! Even an hour or two of the 'relaxing' forms can leave me (and others totally shattered afterwards.And I wouldn't say I'm doing hardcore training.

A Steelwire-Mantis Sifu once said to me, "You think cos TC is a 'soft' MA then the training is soft? Wrong, they have some of the hardest training in KF"

TC is like any art, you can push yourself as far as you want/need to.
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#394731 - 05/15/08 02:21 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: trevek]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Jude, as someone who studied TKD and wrestling I eventually came to Tai Chi.

My first ten minutes of my first class my muscles were screaming, and all I had to do was stand still! Even an hour or two of the 'relaxing' forms can leave me (and others totally shattered afterwards.And I wouldn't say I'm doing hardcore training.

A Steelwire-Mantis Sifu once said to me, "You think cos TC is a 'soft' MA then the training is soft? Wrong, they have some of the hardest training in KF"

TC is like any art, you can push yourself as far as you want/need to.




I should imagine you can. Isometric's . Lovely stuff. The standing still part.

Jude

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#394732 - 05/15/08 03:51 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: jude33]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Yeah, 5 minutes in simple basic stance with hands out at waist height. By minute 2 my muscles were going into tremor.

After minute five he said "Ok, now take up this position". Weight on right leg and right hand out. "3 minutes" instant tremor.

By the end of minute 6 I am thinking "Hell! I'm paying to have this pain and I have another 80 minutes of it!!!!!"
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#394733 - 05/15/08 06:04 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: trevek]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
It's all down to the excess tension you have when holding those positions. The aim is to get you to release that tension so you only use the minimum tension necessary to hold the position. In a relatively short space of time you will find you can hold for half an hour with little or no pain.

Try to relax all tensions downward through your feet into the floor. Gradually you will find your legs strengthen, your breathing relax and will feel greatly energised after each session.

You will still sweat a lot though!!

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#394734 - 05/16/08 10:04 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: puffadder]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Thanks,

these days it's ok but thos early days.... my legs still ache thinking of it!
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#394735 - 01/27/09 04:17 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: trevek]
Stalkspredswings Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 2
Qi is universal energy. It is all around us. When we are are born, we already have a store of "original qi" in our dan tien. As we get older our original qi depletes, and when it runs out, we die. By practising Tai chi and, in particular, Qigong, we can restore original qi to our dan tien. We do not "create" qi when we train, we are merely "gathering" universal qi and locking it in our dan tien. The more universal qi we gather, the healthier we become.

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#394736 - 01/27/09 08:56 AM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: Stalkspredswings]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
... and it's thinking and explanations like this that really is moving Tai Chi into the 21st century, ain't it???

In Chi Kung/Qi Gong you should view the process of engaging the muscles and softening, not relaxing. Relaxing implies slackness and laziness. What are looking at doing is lengthening the muscles so that we recruit them more efficiently and powerfully. Most of us are hyper tight most of the time and when we train we tighten the muscles up even more. One thing that Chi Kung teaches us is how to engage and use the muscles more efficiently. If you think of an elastic band, when you stretch it you increase the tension and then it pings back into its normal state. In Chi Kung we lengthen (stretch) the muscles and then 'soften' the them to maintain the 'length' - over time the level of resting tension in the muscles is reprogrammed. As the muscles start to release we start to find deeper and deeper parts of them to access - which they don't like so they moan at us. Chi Kung also *should* teach us the skills of how to move every part of the body in a connected and driven manner. These body skills are taught and isolated in Chi Kung and then put together in form and validated and tested in push hands.

All the talk of 'origin qi' and restoring depleted qi is utterly pointless to most western audiences and pretty much misunderstood coming from most oriental sources. You want explain why Chi Kung improves vitality to western people? Easy. Say it provides us with a means to diagnose and rectify areas where our muscles are holding on too tightly. That 'holding' on burns up our bodily resources, pulls our body out of alignment which makes moving around a chore - easing the tension makes things work easier and uses less energy. Job done... I really am sick of bloody hippies in Tai Chi - they really deplete my qi!


Edited by Gavin (01/27/09 09:02 AM)
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#394737 - 01/27/09 12:42 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: Gavin]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

I really am sick of bloody hippies in Tai Chi - they really deplete my qi!




LOL, Gavin, I feel your pain, man.

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#394738 - 01/27/09 02:36 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: Ames]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:



LOL, Gavin, I feel your pain, man.




So would a few hippies if I got 'old of 'em!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#394739 - 01/27/09 03:47 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: Stalkspredswings]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
"Qi is universal energy. It is all around us. When we are are born, we already have a store of "original qi" in our dan tien. As we get older our original qi depletes, and when it runs out, we die. By practising Tai chi and, in particular, Qigong, we can restore original qi to our dan tien. We do not "create" qi when we train, we are merely "gathering" universal qi and locking it in our dan tien. The more universal qi we gather, the healthier we become."

How do you know any of this is true?

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#394740 - 01/27/09 04:44 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: fileboy2002]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
ummm, because yoda said it...
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"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#394741 - 04/02/09 07:24 PM Re: My 'ignorance' in believing in External Qi-Kun [Re: Seiken]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Good question, Seiken.

I've noticed definitions of Qi only become murky and/or metaphorical when Qi-believers are challenged by skeptics. When Qi-believers talk amongst themsleves, the confusion magically disappears.

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