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#394351 - 05/07/08 04:27 PM Anyone study Pai Lum on this forum?
FireSickle Offline

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 2
Loc: PA, USA
Hi all!

I am new to the forums (in fact this is my first post on any martial arts forum, so bare with me here). I am hoping some of you guys could offer me some insight on my style, and hopefully connect with some people studying the same style of Kung Fu as I am.

I have been studying Pai Lum Kung Fu for just about a year. I study in a school in Carlisle Pennsylvania. A while ago I became interested in the origins of my style, as most students of any style do… So to feed my craving of knowledge, I hopped onto the old internets and began surfing google for Pai Lum. I found links to my instructor’s page, his instructor’s page, my instructor’s instructor’s page… but wasn’t really seeing a whole lot beyond that. (I am weary on wikipedia information as it is subject opinion and constant changes, however I liked what it said about Grandmaster Pai).

Most people (in forums) seemed to have very opinionated views of the style (based on their limited knowledge and exposure through youtube videos of Glenn C Wilson [quick note, my schools are not affiliated with him, John Witteger[spelling] or Pai Li Lung was a senior student of Grandmaster Pai’s and he trained my teacher’s teacher, you get the picture]).

I went on to read a lot of negative feelings towards my style. It was discouraging for some time, but I read a book by Master Gichin Funakoshi about Karate-do, and he basically reignited me. The two books I read were Karate-do: My way of life (which opened my eyes once again) and his book on the 20 principles a Karateka should follow.

He says a lot about constant training, and living Karate as a way of life. All of these concepts are in the core principles of Pai Lum (as taught to me through my instructors and fellow students). I began to realize that it wasn’t so much the style that makes the Martial Art as the person (atleast this is how I currently understand it). If I trained daily, with intensity and dedication, it wouldn’t matter so much what style I was training under so much as what mindset I was training under.

Anyway, I was wondering if there are any members who study Pai Lum, have studied Pai Lum, or just have a general opinion of it (good or bad). I am just trying to increase my knowledge and understanding of the arts, and would love to hear from others on the matter.

Thanks for reading my long winded first post
"It is the very mind itself That leads the mind astray; Of the mind Don't be mindless"

#394352 - 05/07/08 06:29 PM Re: Anyone study Pai Lum on this forum? [Re: FireSickle]
WhiteDragon11 Offline

Registered: 05/02/07
Posts: 1165
Loc: Florida, United States
Hey man,

I study Pai Lum in Florida. Havent been doing it very long either, just a little over a year.

There is no need to have negative feelings on Pai Lum. For some reason, many people have the idea that Wilson is the grandmaster of the style. But just like your school, my school does not affiliate ourselves with him.

If you are looking for information on Pai Lum, I would personally ask your instructor. Find information on the internet is not always the best source. Your teacher probably has valuable information, since he was trained by a student of Dr.Pai.

What are you looking for in Pai Lum? And does your school focus on the self defense aspect of it, or the traditional style of Pai Lum?

I have encountered both; my school focuses on the self defense side, however, we also participate in the traditional style in forms. But after going to a Pai Lum gathering for the Chinese New Year I got to see what other schools focused on too.

#394353 - 05/07/08 07:38 PM Re: Anyone study Pai Lum on this forum? [Re: FireSickle]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH

First off if you're going to study any art and then check out what people have to say about it on the internet you better have a very thick skin. Every one get's trashed sooner or later.

The various derivatives of instruction of Daniel Pai (Pai Lum and all) are right out there. The system changed as time passed, I understand Mr. Pai was originally teaching Goju and later added the Chinese arts. But I wasn't there so I can't prove any of it.

I have trained a long time with someone who trained under Mr. Pai, he taught the system for decades but moved on to a traditional Northern Chinese system that was very different.

Mr. Pai, a contemporary and friend of Ed Parker, was almost the first instructor in the Chinese arts in the NE USA in the 60's. Those times were very fractious, just as todays. Mr. Pai taught most of his students individually so most of them received very different material. He developed the self defense techniques taught by the Tracy brothers. He created an organization and then dropped off the face of the earth to his students for his own reasons.

They continued to train and teach his various versions in many cases. In the 1990's he re-emerged in the martial scene and before his death was tied into the instruction with Glenn Wilson. He was not actively involved with his prior students as I understand it.

FYI while Cynthia Rothrock may have appeared with him and may have been associated with him in some way, in those years her only focus was her movie career, not promoting the Pai Lum system. For the record she did have considerable experience in Pai Lum but from her former husband Ernest Rothrock, and her competition career was based on his Pai Lum (and other) teachings as well as her own considerable abilities. I guarantee you by the 1990's she didn't get any thing from Mr. Wilson that she hadn't been exposed to decades before that time.

Anyone, if the system of training you're studying satisfies you it really doesn't matter what others opinions are of it, or if it does you shouldn't be training, IMO.

The video record is so scanty there is no intelligent way to evaluate any of it. Anyone can have opinions, but the truth is there isn't enough to really know what they know, just you can see what the walkthroughs presented represent.

On the other hand you can readily make your own informed opinion, for you get to observe your instructors and if you're studying Chinese arts, you tube has thousands of good performances of Chinese arts from uncountable traditional and modern systems.

Do your own research, make your own opinion and never listen to others. It's your decisions that really matter.

While I have considerable information about Mr. Pai, none of it is first hand, and though I completely trust my sources I would never discuss any if it. Not my business.

The 'truth' will never be told for no one has it all, or even a part.

The world and this list, too, are filled with everyone who can give quick answers. Often those answers aren't talking about reality. How much they are or are not is your decision.

Good luck in your training,
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

#394354 - 05/08/08 10:10 AM Re: Anyone study Pai Lum on this forum? [Re: FireSickle]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Sifu Pai's Pai Lum system compares to Sensei Vancliefs Chinese Goju and Ed Parkers AMK all are system comprised of serveral traditional systems either Japanese or Hawaii based with added Chinese influence each trying to recapture there accepted orgin. They are hybrd systems that are good training but in an attempt to reach their roots each Soke input is different each system become different then the original training Good or Bad.

All seem to turn out competent martial artist but not linked to any Trad art methods but its own. Just my 2 cent.

Edited by Neko456 (05/08/08 10:12 AM)

#394355 - 05/08/08 10:46 AM Re: Anyone study Pai Lum on this forum? [Re: Neko456]
FireSickle Offline

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 2
Loc: PA, USA
Thanks for the response guys!!

WhiteDragon11: “What are you looking for in Pai Lum? And does your school focus on the self defense aspect of it, or the traditional style of Pai Lum?

I have encountered both; my school focuses on the self defense side”

My instructor teaches self-defense. A lot of the students who go to the school are older folks looking just to get back into shape and also learn to protect themselves. My instructor’s instructor is extremely traditional. His Kwoon is much larger also, it’s a 35 minute drive for me though (It takes 2 minutes to walk to the kwoon I go to). My instructor’s personality is almost the polar opposite of his teacher, which is probably why his school differs so much. Good or Bad I love training there…

@Victor Smith: Yes, I love my kwoon. I don’t care what others say (good or bad) and am definitely not looking to start debates or arguments, I was simply interested in seeing what others think. So, thank you for your insights, very much appreciated.

Again, thanks guys for the response guys!
"It is the very mind itself That leads the mind astray; Of the mind Don't be mindless"


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