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#393662 - 04/30/08 08:23 PM Rare standing armbar MMA
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Our friend BrianRVanCise posted this over at MartialTalk:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=968811#post968811

Pretty interesting. Don't see standing armbars done too often, although we used to do those in my Kenpo classes a lot. Tough to control!

Good find Brian!
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#393663 - 05/01/08 05:08 AM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: MattJ]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
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In western MMA rules, would this count as small joint manipulation in any way? or would the speed of the technique having an intention to break as opposed to creating a submission be considered against the rules?

He really cranked on that! and it has always been my contention in the tired old 'MMA on the street' arguments that surface, that armbars, kimura's etc, are all applied gradualy in competition only to spare damage- if done to break, they are a very quick technique- you dont need to roll around for 40 seconds waiting for a tap.

this clip kind of brings that home IMO.
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#393664 - 05/01/08 07:01 AM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: Cord]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Good points Cord. I don't know anyone in their right mind who would roll around, trying to get a 'tap' in a street fight. Such a person would have to be about as moronic as the people are who insinuate that this is the objective.

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#393665 - 05/01/08 07:24 AM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
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Quote:

In western MMA rules, would this count as small joint manipulation in any way?




Not sure, but I don't think so. It is an armbar, albeit a non-standard one. Although that is a good question of itself -

Are wristlocks allowed in MMA? I'm pretty sure that finger locks are not. Although I think toe holds are, and I know ankle locks are.

Seems odd to me that they wouldn't be allowed, since toes are analogous to fingers, and the ankle is analogous to the wrist, but....meh.

Anybody?
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#393666 - 05/01/08 07:48 AM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: MattJ]
shills11 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Glasgow Scotland
I would put that under unsporting conduct, I know that sounds a bit silly in an MMA match but I actually think that he was out of order here he did that FAST and it looks like he meant to do it i believe in a match you should at least give your opponent the oportunity to tap from a submission attempt,if he doesnt tap then thats down to them and they have to live with the consequencies If heel hooks (and other twisting knee locks) are begining to be banned in some promotions i think that variation of an armbar should definately not be aloud.

Also Imagine you put other submissions on that fast without allowing you're opponent to tap? Neck cranks anyone??
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#393667 - 05/01/08 10:44 AM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: shills11]
Usenthemighty Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 78
Loc: Nash hood , TN
Well you kinda need to do it fast in-order for you to secure it on your opponent before he or she can counter, but I do understand what you mean tho. However, they can't just start banning so many locks. One grappler's will be at a great disadvantage, two that will open a can of worms. It just seems a little ludacris to say one can only armbar someone this way and no other variation, when that is what makes fighting fighting.

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#393668 - 05/01/08 10:56 AM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: Usenthemighty]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Well you kinda need to do it fast in-order for you to secure it on your opponent before he or she can counter, but I do understand what you mean tho. However, they can't just start banning so many locks. One grappler's will be at a great disadvantage, two that will open a can of worms. It just seems a little ludacris to say one can only armbar someone this way and no other variation, when that is what makes fighting fighting.




I dont think the application of holds to force submission was created as a kindness to the fighters. Remember how long Sylvia was out after Mir Broke his forearm? promoters cant afford to have their fighters risk retirement injuries every time they fight. The concept of the tapout is to give a fighter a chance to say 'yeah, fair play, you got me'. If you start creating a culture of 'snap it before they can tap', then you are going to see the death of MMA as athletes simply wont compete for fear of life-altering injury.
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#393669 - 05/05/08 03:56 AM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: Cord]
TheSandaPanda Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
HOLY SH**!!!

Wow. Waki Gatame for the win... I guess. Man I cringe just looking at that.
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#393670 - 05/05/08 02:53 PM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: TheSandaPanda]
MattyChi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
i mean mma isn't fricken bloodsport, geez. There should be a level of sportsmanship.

Also I don't think the other guy necessarily intentionally broke the arm. I think he may have been trying to just swing the guy around by the lock real quick, but who knows.

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#393671 - 05/08/08 11:41 PM Re: Rare standing armbar MMA [Re: MattyChi]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I don't have a problem with it. Part of the dangers of fighting. There is no rule that says you have to wait for the guy to tap, especially with a "zero" control move like that.

At the pro level, most fighters are going to blow through a lock and make the ref save the other guy. Holding back can be the difference between winning and losing. Not my thing, but that's the nature of the game.
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