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#393423 - 05/03/08 10:53 AM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: jude33]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Bear .

Competing in bareknuckle MMA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAZZiPpFOls


Edited by jude33 (05/03/08 10:58 AM)

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#393424 - 05/03/08 01:00 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: jude33]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
Quote:

My thoughts.

It takes a long time just concentrating on being able to strike effectively bare handed to be used in a self defence situation.




Can you define 'a long time'? because I don't know if we are agreeing or disagreeing! longer than a 1 hour self defence course? longer than 6 months training 2-3 times a week? longer than 1 year? etc.

Quote:

MMA includes a lot of techniques. I have nothing against MMA by the way.




As do karate and Judo. I have nothing against them too ;-)

Quote:

Bear in mind MMA is mixed martial arts. An art outside MMA?
Mixed martial arts means mixed.




Don't understand what you've written here. Do you mean MMA is a mix of other martial arts therefore implying it has more martial arts to incorporate - thus a lot of techniques? If so i think that concept is a little flawed.
MMA uses what works best, and discards that which does not, or that is the idea. It should not just be a combination of karate, judo and jujitsu.

Quote:

If I a person used bare knuckle punching in a bareknuckle MMA competition then that could come from karate training.




You are a person then??!! lol.
Bareknuckle or not it COULD come from karate, yes.

Quote:

In fact in early MMA it sometimes did.......
Competing in bareknuckle MMA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAZZiPpFOls





Lol. I don't think too many karate ka would be happy with that striking. Early UFC's are not really a fair representation of MMA. (or karate)

Back on topic. MMA training is effective for self defence. From my POV, MMA is as effective as any other MA (or more so), for the majority of people (age, sex, size etc)
_________________________
"Its only pain, it wont hurt you"

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#393425 - 05/03/08 03:04 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:



Can you define 'a long time'? because I don't know if we are agreeing or disagreeing! longer than a 1 hour self defence course? longer than 6 months training 2-3 times a week? longer than 1 year? etc.




How long does it take to be able to do effective bareknuckle/ bare handed striking?


I wouldnt begin to give a time on it. Start the training then and keep going as long as when a person is in their late 60's and beyond.
Seen as you consider bare knuckle striking basic and I am not sure if you have ever done it so;
If you have indeed done bare knuckle strikes/ bare handed strikes and trained with others then please be so kind as to state the

Kind of training you did.
The injuries that can be got from the training and the usage in a self defence scenario. Then we can establish if we are discussing the same thing.
Quote:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAZZiPpFOls




Quote:


Lol. I don't think too many karate ka would be happy with that striking. Early UFC's are not really a fair representation of MMA. (or karate)



Realy? So I presume you train only using gloves?

The video by the way was a pun.
Bear in mind?
The guys nick name was bear?
Quote:


Back on topic. MMA training is effective for self defence. From my POV, MMA is as effective as any other MA (or more so), for the majority of people (age, sex, size etc)




I dont recall saying it couldnt be.
You think more so?
More so than what?

Jude


Edited by jude33 (05/03/08 03:07 PM)

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#393426 - 05/03/08 04:15 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: jude33]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
okay! Sorry if i've offended you! just been going along with the discussion!!! Anyways....

Quote:

I wouldnt begin to give a time on it. Start the training then and keep going as long as when a person is in their late 60's and beyond.
Seen as you consider bare knuckle striking basic and I am not sure if you have ever done it so




So you think that it is reasonable for someone to train in a martial art, and (for arguments sake) 10 years later that person cannot punch effectively!?
And you are questioning me!?

I have said that punching is basic. Do you not agree? What is more basic than punching in MA?

It is not easy to be a great puncher. But to have a punch which is good enough to get you out of trouble (e.g. in self defence) does not require you to be great. If it does I cant defend myself. Can you?

Quote:

Realy? So I presume you train only using gloves?




Yes really, i don't think the early UFC's are a good representation of MMA or good karate striking. Do you?

No i do not train using only gloves. Neither do I strike people bare knuckle to the face or hit a makiwara.

Quote:

I dont recall saying it couldnt be.




What!!! I didn't say you had!

What has been implied on a few posts is that there are better ways of training for self defence 'fighting' than MMA. Some of the reasons given included there are too many techniques (which you have talked about) and that mma techniques (e.g. a punch) need to much skill to be performed quickly and effectively (again you've talked about this).
I disagree. Have given (valid IMO) arguments, but not had many good points given back. Do you see it this way?

Quote:

You think more so?
More so than what?




Yeah. IMO I think MMA is the best form of training, that is why I do it. But I Know everyone wont agree with that!

More so than what ever the polar bears style is.
_________________________
"Its only pain, it wont hurt you"

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#393427 - 05/03/08 10:47 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
Mastah Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 66
Loc: PA
I might instead take boxing there
since it might be cheaper and less frequent.

Hopefully they don't charge 75/month for boxing.
_________________________
“Really great people make you feel that you, too, can become great.” - Mark Twain

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#393428 - 05/03/08 11:47 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

okay! Sorry if i've offended you! just been going along with the discussion!!! Anyways....




Sounds like an ego trip, you didnt offend me so why state it?
Quote:



So you think that it is reasonable for someone to train in a martial art, and (for arguments sake) 10 years later that person cannot punch effectively!?




You arent reading what I wrote. Martial arts is a life long study. Interesting you didnt pick up on that one.
Quote:


And you are questioning me!?




It might seem so.
Quote:


I have said that punching is basic. Do you not agree? What is more basic than punching in MA?




You are entitled to state that.
Just going off topic. There was a good song from a few years ago. I think the title was what a fool believes
Quote:


It is not easy to be a great puncher. But to have a punch which is good enough to get you out of trouble (e.g. in self defence) does not require you to be great.





Back to the song title.
Quote:


If it does I cant defend myself.




By the sounds of it I would agree with your statement.
Quote:


Can you?




Well I am answering this post quite fit and healthy so I presume that I must have done something correct, somewhere, somehow, but I am still a student and still learning.
Untill I reach some dizzy heights.

Quote:


Yes really, i don't think the early UFC's are a good representation of MMA or good karate striking. Do you?




Perhaps that is because you didnt compete against any of them. Or did you?
Quote:


No i do not train using only gloves. Neither do I strike people bare knuckle to the face or hit a makiwara.




So a bag then? and thats it?

Quote:

.

What has been implied on a few posts is that there are better ways of training for self defence 'fighting' than MMA. Some of the reasons given included there are too many techniques (which you have talked about) and that mma techniques (e.g. a punch) need to much skill to be performed quickly and effectively (again you've talked about this).





Wrong. Re read my posts on this topic.
sounds to me you are taking self defence to lightly.

Quote:

You think more so?
More so than what?



Quote:


Yeah. IMO I think MMA is the best form of training, that is why I do it. But I Know everyone wont agree with that!




MMA can in certain circumstances is a good way of training. There is no such thing as the best.

Top
#393429 - 05/04/08 01:57 AM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: jude33]
TheCrab Offline
Scum
Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
on the whole "its easy to learn how to punch" or whatever debate.

thats a load of S***, some people might take a year of training to get a good left hook, and some people can sit on the couch all day every day and be able to do one.

in fact, the whole topic of different martial arts effectiveness in self defence is void. It comes down to who does it, not who does the art. theres a lot of really tough [censored] around who have never trained before in anything.

youtube jake the muss or something

Top
#393430 - 05/04/08 05:55 AM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: jude33]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
Quote:


Sounds like an ego trip, you didnt offend me so why state it?





As in your last post you seemed not to want to talk about the subject topic instead just qusetioned the experience of someone you'd never met, and then imply they had none. Constructive. Thought it might get the thread back on topic.

Quote:

You arent reading what I wrote. Martial arts is a life long study. Interesting you didnt pick up on that one.





No. you are not reading what i wrote. I did pick up on what you were saying, but it wasn't answering the question asked. I like the sly dig at the end.....so do you put forward arguments to back up what you've said or insults?

Quote:

You are entitled to state that.
Just going off topic. There was a good song from a few years ago. I think the title was what a fool believes




and here's your answer. btw you were off topic miles ago.

Quote:


Back to the song title.





and again

Quote:

If it does I cant defend myself.
By the sounds of it I would agree with your statement.





again


Quote:


Well I am answering this post quite fit and healthy so I presume that I must have done something correct, somewhere, somehow, but I am still a student and still learning.
Untill I reach some dizzy heights.





You ARE answering this post?
I'll take your word on the rest.
Quote:


"Yes really, i don't think the early UFC's are a good representation of MMA or good karate striking. Do you?"

Perhaps that is because you didnt compete against any of them. Or did you?





That is relevant how?

Quote:


So a bag then? and thats it?





Yes i hit bags and pads and spar.
You punch to the head and use makiwara i take it from the reply?
Quote:


Quote:


What has been implied on a few posts is that there are better ways of training for self defence 'fighting' than MMA. Some of the reasons given included there are too many techniques (which you have talked about) and that mma techniques (e.g. a punch) need to much skill to be performed quickly and effectively (again you've talked about this).




Wrong. Re read my posts on this topic.
sounds to me you are taking self defence to lightly.




you:

Quote:

How long does it take to be able to do effective bareknuckle/ bare handed striking?


I wouldnt begin to give a time on it. Start the training then and keep going as long as when a person is in their late 60's and beyond




You said
Quote:

MMA includes a lot of techniques. I have nothing against MMA by the way.

Bear in mind MMA is mixed martial arts. An art outside MMA?




So i have been reading your posts. Unfortunately you do not seem to be reading mine, or you are but don't have an argument so make one up.

Quote:

MMA can in certain circumstances is a good way of training. There is no such thing as the best.




If that is your opinion.

You have not backed up your views with anything on your past two posts here, just threw a few insults. that's cool, but i've lost interest in attempting to give you structured replies and my ego is just getting dented.
_________________________
"Its only pain, it wont hurt you"

Top
#393431 - 05/04/08 05:59 AM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: TheCrab]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
Quote:

on the whole "its easy to learn how to punch" or whatever debate.

thats a load of S***, some people might take a year of training to get a good left hook, and some people can sit on the couch all day every day and be able to do one.

in fact, the whole topic of different martial arts effectiveness in self defence is void. It comes down to who does it, not who does the art. theres a lot of really tough [censored] around who have never trained before in anything.

youtube jake the muss or something




You are right to some extent. The person may be more important than the style. But the style is important.

note: what i mean by style is what the person learns and how they learn it.
there is good and bad karate, good and bad mma


Edited by creative (05/04/08 06:01 AM)
_________________________
"Its only pain, it wont hurt you"

Top
#393432 - 05/04/08 08:35 AM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
He is right eh?

Jake "the Muss" Heke is a fictional character created by New Zealand writer Alan Duff. He appears in three of Duff's novels, Once Were Warriors

If you care to answer the question I asked regards bareknuckle punching then this might lead somewhere other wise it wont.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (05/04/08 08:49 AM)

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