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#393413 - 05/01/08 10:12 AM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: Neko456]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
Quote:

I think it's like shooting a fly with a shotgun. MMA covers all there is to know about fighting except when not to fight




No. Just because in MMA you practice fighting, does not mean that MMAist are taught to fight everytime they might get in a self defence situation. I do MMA, I avoid going to likely places of violence, when faced with idiots, i walk away, I think i know when not to fight as do most other MMAist I know.

Quote:

One of MMA greatest access is its fitness level you won't get that or maintain that in short terms.




Are you saying you cannot greatly improve fitness in the short term? and cannot maintain fitness?

Quote:

Along with there fitness is there tested and often use techniques that take much skill to use successfully.




Techniques like a right cross, knees and elbows? The better you get at these the more successful you will be with them.
Don't really understand your wording. A skill is a technique applied yes? You do not need "much skill" to land a punch.

Quote:

Their approach of bring the fight to the opponent works well for TV and UFC rankings but they are not sound SD methods there are so many things you have to keep in mind on the street other then kicking the other guys a$$.




Another POV is their approach matches their environment. Can easily be changed from UFC approach to street.

Quote:

I think a good MMA with taught SD tactics would be a very good fighter on the street but these skills and fitness level are not easy to learn, attain or maintain.




Exchange MMA with karate, puncher, judo.....
Good things very many people who do mma also consider street tactics.
And yeah it's not easy.

Quote:

Self defense can be successful without such extrem conditioning and skill level. Having some common knowledge of what a street fight is and technique to deter, counter and escape is better and easier to attain and maintain.




It's not extreme, I prefer fun. Not every MMAist is of the same conditioning of silva, gsp or butterbean, but the training does tend to keep you fit. not a negative in my book.
For the majority of people a 'common knowledge' of self defence, minus any fighting skills will be enough to keep them safe.




I know 60 year old men that are very effective street fighters because they know how and where to hurt you and don't care about fighting dirty. They didn't get old by being a fool or a push over.

My 2 cent.




see above point. Age and fitness should not be an argument against the effectiveness of MMA for self defence. Foreman was boxing into his late 50's at the top level, randy C is mid 40's at the top level. There is not reason why one cant go one, being fit and active into their 60's and beyond.

From Mastahs first post, seems he is rather clued up on the realities of SD and MA training.
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#393414 - 05/01/08 02:02 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
It depends on the MMA instructor or what the aim of that MMA gym is.
Where I train its MMA based drills and sparring for no holds barred fights.Anything goes.Its up to the individual to then go into the ring if he wants and not do this or do that because of rules.
Some gyms are purely for sports MMA so might stay with in the rules all the time.Even then it doesnt take much brains to see what would work in SD and what would not.

The best thing about MMA based training I think is the drills and the fact that nothing can get through that does not work against a live, resisting opponent and you can prove it yourself and see it proven in these drills and at high realistic intensitys yet stay relatively safe.If the instructor is good and theres trust in the gym of course.
The drills come out of Boxing, Thai Boxing and Submission wrestling,as far as I know, but can be tweeked for anything depending on your imagination.That includes knife work and multiple opponents.

With imagination drills can be created for ANYTHING.
We do multiple opponent drills,knife drills with a paper knife.In 5 minutes we can prove or not prove what will work.

Of course there is a whole self protection side that involves awareness and safety tactics and common people skills like not being an idiot etc.
But for the physical side MMA based drills and sparring are the best out there in my opinion.It took a while to see and if others see and good instructors get out there MMA as SD will grow I think.
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#393415 - 05/01/08 02:22 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: matxtx]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
matxtx,

That was an excellent post. You're dead-on it. Particularly about the "trust' aspect in the gym. I personally think that is something not often mentioned, but a huge factor.

-John

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#393416 - 05/01/08 04:52 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:



You do not need "much skill" to land a punch.








That would be dependent on a few things. In the sense of controlled fighting there are plenty of vale tudo/ boxing bouts where the guys only land a few punches the whole bout.

Jude

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#393417 - 05/01/08 04:53 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I was talking above the average guy that not 15-30 years old and the question before mines mentioned Pro level MMAer. MMA techniques practiced without the Pro level fitness would work but not as well as the dedicated Pro level practioner as is with any other disclipine.

creative wrote - Techniques like a right cross, knees and elbows? The better you get at these the more successful you will be with them. Don't really understand your wording. A skill is a technique applied yes? You do not need "much skill" to land a punch.


What I was talking about was logitics, defensive skills and the close range that you are taught to fight in. I agree its easy almost natural to punch someone out but it takes skill to learn to bob and weave & raise your guard countering through the onslaught/incoming. Or use your foot work to escape. Now we all know having a good punch and kick to the lower extrem can get U through most inital encounters, and a good offense can be a good defense but w/o training some of thats luck, skill takes time.


I'm not discounting fitness I'm saying that you don't need and its harder to aquire Pro level fitness if its not your job. Sure its wanted but so is cold water in hell, I'm just saying that its hard to attain. And not needed in self defense but surlly an Ace to your full house if you got it.

I'm generalizing in some my statement I apologize for that but I do think that there is a mental adjust from gym to street that has to be made.


Edited by Neko456 (05/01/08 04:54 PM)
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#393418 - 05/01/08 05:49 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: jude33]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
I was posting from a self defence perspective. obviously as the calibre of fighter you face increases, so will your level of skill will need to.
My point was really to say that a punch is about as basic a skill as there is in ANY MA. So to say MMA needs too much practice before its techniques are useful/applicable is IMO wrong.
Don't want to say it........a punch is a....cant do it...
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"Its only pain, it wont hurt you"

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#393419 - 05/01/08 07:55 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I was posting from a self defence perspective. obviously as the calibre of fighter you face increases, so will your level of skill will need to.
My point was really to say that a punch is about as basic a skill as there is in ANY MA. So to say MMA needs too much practice before its techniques are useful/applicable is IMO wrong.





Scratching my head somewhat.

To reach a high level of use in anything I think would take a lot of practice and repetition .

Regards some street fighters. S/D.
There are seasoned ones about.

Jude

Still cant see how someone can train 4 to 8 hours a day.


Edited by jude33 (05/01/08 08:37 PM)

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#393420 - 05/01/08 08:03 PM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I was posting from a self defence perspective. obviously as the calibre of fighter you face increases, so will your level of skill will need to.
My point was really to say that a punch is about as basic a skill as there is in ANY MA. So to say MMA needs too much practice before its techniques are useful/applicable is IMO wrong.
Don't want to say it........a punch is a....cant do it...




Punching is easy and anyone can do it. My four year old can punch.
However, proper punching is a different matter. Much repetition is needed to have an effective punch,but anyone can just punch,lol.
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#393421 - 05/02/08 06:06 AM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: BrianS]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
Obviously I'm not explaining myself very well. My comment about punching was in reply to:

[QUOTE] Along with there fitness is there tested and often use techniques (of MMA) that take much skill to use successfully.




My interpretation of the above was that the poster was implying you need a lot of skill to pull of anything from MMA and not so much skill to pull of techniques from outside mma. Am I the only one who uninterpreted read the post that way? lol

My point is basic technique from mma will be learned just as quickly (if not more so) than from any other. So you don't need MORE skill to pull off an mma knee to the groin/ punch to the face, than the same techniques learned from another style. (Not that style even matters!!!!).

Yes practice will improve the skill. Yes you will need more skill against higher calibre of opposition.

On a side not, I'm sure you see a bigger increase in your skill level of punching in the first year compared to the following five or ten, also irrespective of style practiced.
_________________________
"Its only pain, it wont hurt you"

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#393422 - 05/03/08 07:29 AM Re: MMA as Self-Defense? [Re: creative]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:


[QUOTE] Along with there fitness is there tested and often use techniques (of MMA) that take much skill to use successfully.



Quote:


My interpretation of the above was that the poster was implying you need a lot of skill to pull of anything from MMA and not so much skill to pull of techniques from outside mma. Am I the only one who uninterpreted read the post that way? lol






My thoughts.

It takes a long time just concentrating on being able to strike effectively bare handed to be used in a self defence situation.
MMA includes a lot of techniques. I have nothing against MMA by the way.

Bear in mind MMA is mixed martial arts. An art outside MMA?
Mixed martial arts means mixed.

If I a person used bare knuckle punching in a bareknuckle MMA competition then that could come from karate training.
In fact in early MMA it sometimes did.

Jude

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