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#392646 - 04/23/08 08:31 AM Shotokan - Etiquette
LeeF Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Rogers, AR
What would the proper etiquette be, if another black belt (same dan) walked into your dojo, but he had more years experience than yourself?

Here's my dilemma.

I've been training almost all my life, save 6 years. I've had my Shodan since 2000. In looking for a place to train, BrianS gave me the name of a local dojo. The issue is, the Sensei (a Shodan as well) has only been training in martial arts for less time than I've held my Shodan (white to black in 3 years), and I'm being treated like a student(disciplined, shown bad attitude). It's been made clear that I'm not looking for instruction at the moment, just somewhere to train if even alone just for the room.

Now, I am almost 20 years younger, but that shouldn't mean anything, correct? Seniority is by kyu then time at kyu, right?

Any input is appreciated, good or bad.

Thank you, everyone.

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#392647 - 04/23/08 08:40 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: LeeF]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
White to black belt in 3 years and running his own club? Unless he is truly very impressive, why would you want to train there anyway? Should shodans be teaching at all? Not generally IMO.

That said, it is his club and presumably you are either part of the class taught by him or not (unless he is generous enough to give you some space on your own) so if you don't like it and even if he could be a bit more sensitive to your own experience you walk, surely...

B.

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#392648 - 04/23/08 08:54 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: Barad]
LeeF Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Rogers, AR
Not impressive.

Don't usually teach, no; although I've been asked by several peers for basic training. Haven't yet, but they've asked quite a bit and my Sensei said it's ok.

I understand it's the Sensei's dojo, and I more than likely will walk as I'm not trying to take over anyones dojo, just train. But I do know, it is utterly disrespectful to correct a higher rank than yourself.

I'm just not sure how seniority works, in this case.

Thank you for your input!!

Lee

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#392649 - 04/23/08 08:58 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: LeeF]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I thought Shotokan etiquette was basically the same as any other karate...in that whenever you walk into a new dojo...you are white belt. If not a white belt mentally, expect some conflicts/issues to arise.

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#392650 - 04/23/08 09:02 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: harlan]
LeeF Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Rogers, AR
Then everytime Master Okano stepped into my dojo he was a white belt?

I know that when I went into Kenpo, I started as white belt, as well as Ninjutsu. Dojo to dojo in the same style, rank is honored.

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#392651 - 04/23/08 09:08 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: harlan]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
I have always found that approach (white belt all over again) a bit strange in practice. Rob Redmond (24 Fighting Chickens) used the analogy of a degree or doctorate issued by a reputable university. If you go elsewhere to research, your qualification is not treated as if it was never awarded. I tend to agree with him that the same should apply to reputable karate grades and that a bit of common sense probably helps...

In practice why make someone with some skills start at the bottom again except for reasons of ego and politics, which seem to permeate many martial arts. My experience is that blackbelts from elsewhere tend to wait to be told where to go as putting yourself at the head of a line is a bit presumptious but I have never seen blackbelts from elsewhere in the same or a similar art (eg Wado and Shotokan) actually told to train as white belts.

B.


Edited by Barad (04/23/08 09:11 AM)

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#392652 - 04/23/08 09:09 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: LeeF]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
My mistake. I thought you were there asking for something...not to teach. Personally, I respect seniority..especially when it's backed up with skill.

Quote:

Then everytime Master Okano stepped into my dojo he was a white belt?





Edited by harlan (04/23/08 09:12 AM)

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#392653 - 04/23/08 09:10 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: Barad]
LeeF Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Rogers, AR
That is a great analogy, Barad.

Lee

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#392654 - 04/23/08 09:13 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: LeeF]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Not mine though-Fighting Chickens website is well worth a look for some alternative views on Shotokan by a highly graded practicioner who spent a while training in Japan.

B

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#392655 - 04/23/08 09:16 AM Re: Shotokan - Etiquette [Re: harlan]
LeeF Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Rogers, AR
Not to teach, or learn, just train. Somewhere that had room for me to train.

I was asked to help teach. Still hesitant on that part, though.
Quote:

My mistake. I thought you were there asking for something...not to teach. Personally, I respect seniority..especially when it's backed up with skill.




Barad-
I'll have to give it a look, thanks!

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