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#392314 - 05/01/08 03:59 PM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: medulanet]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Medulaent/Jude33 - 20+ pages everytime you post something about this topic, people want to know. The only problem is that I join in hoping to learn something new and really only get some good assumptions and probabilities.

Interesting but nothing concret except obviously they already knew how to wrestl so it was no need to document it categorize the techniques or put it Kata as was with Te until Te became a commondity. With Judo and Jujitsu you could see why Japan wasn't interested in Tegumi.

Interesting but vauge, I'm usually not a nay sayer, but this time even though you stand in fine company Hanshi McCarthy, I'm with Shonuff, Mattj, Ed and others I say nay.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#392315 - 05/01/08 04:02 PM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: MattJ]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Yes, you keep changing your point. And yes, "drift" is exactly the word I would use to describe your ideas.

Freudian slip, perhaps?




No proof yet? I see, it figures.

As for my common use of "drift" actually its a pun. That's why its in quotations and many times I say drift in quotes and many times put in parenthesis (pun intended). You might have remembered that if you read my posts closely. I come at people hard sometimes, yet use subtleties that are sometimes missed. Anyway, everyone has their own "style" as we see from our discussions. Of course some people are villified because of it. Go figure.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

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#392316 - 05/01/08 04:29 PM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: Neko456]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Medulaent/Jude33 - 20+ pages everytime you post something about this topic, people want to know. The only problem is that I join in hoping to learn something new and really only get some good assumptions and probabilities.

Interesting but nothing concret except obviously they already knew how to wrestl so it was no need to document it categorize the techniques or put it Kata as was with Te until Te became a commondity. With Judo and Jujitsu you could see why Japan wasn't interested in Tegumi.

Interesting but vauge, I'm usually not a nay sayer, but this time even though you stand in fine company Hanshi McCarthy, I'm with Shonuff, Mattj, Ed and others I say nay.




I suppose at some time more points will come up. There is a fair bit of history about Okinawa. The problem is it isnt just written in a History book.

I actualy enjoy these thread as it brings up new topics on both sides of the conversation such as the point you brought up. Then actualy reading between the lines, techique information, although put in a subtle way.

The questions of why?
Although some might not see these conversations that way.

Jude

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#392317 - 05/01/08 06:29 PM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: medulanet]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

No proof yet? I see, it figures.




Anyone can scan your posts for proof if they like.

Quote:

You might have remembered that if you read my posts closely.




Yes, of course, more little insults. Anyone that disagrees with you is stupid, lazy, etc.....

Excellent debate tactic.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#392318 - 05/04/08 09:44 AM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: jude33]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
At the time of the inclusion of the dan system in to karate and giving dan grades were an indication of level, then I suppose minus ground fighting skills that would mean a 4th dan karate would hold a 4th dan standing up but still be a white belt if they ever found themselves on their backs.
Weapons
Running
weigth training/ restistance training/ conditioning.
Grappling/ striking all postitions I think was part of the make up of the art that became known as karate.

Just thought I would post this so the thread doesnt dissapear in to the abyss.

Jude

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#392319 - 05/04/08 12:41 PM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: jude33]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
a 4th dan in karate means just that. he's not a 4th dan in anything else, what does that have to do with anything?
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#392320 - 05/04/08 10:26 PM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: jude33]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I was hoping the thread would disappear into the abyss,lol.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#392321 - 05/05/08 11:46 AM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: student_of_life]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

a 4th dan in karate means just that. he's not a 4th dan in anything else, what does that have to do with anything?




It means all the thought and consideration. The excellent work people did putting together an art like karate. And some of you guys make out they were foolish enough to leave gaps.
I dont think so.

Running in karate is it part of the art?
weigth training in karate is it part of the art?

Jude

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#392322 - 05/05/08 01:51 PM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: jude33]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Jude,

I admire your hope on this subject and in many ways I agree that tegumi was indeed a part of early karate practice,

the simple fact is that it was not transmitted, and the art transformed into karatedo - without wrestling.

This is supported by absolutly no solid lineage, no written or pictorial records at all showing wrestling proper.

Along with no Okinawan Masters demonstrating the art of Tegumi, that any of us, and any of the significantly more resourced historians and visitors to Okinawa have seen or indeed trained.

What does remain is a small ammount oral history/written legend referencing the art of tegumi and of course the absolutly obvious fact that it would have had a place in an effective martial art like karate.

I found this out a few years back and in line with my Seniors guidence decided to develop and practice tegumi as I understood it, I felt karatedo deserved that (and was inspired by McCarthy Sensei and Bill Hayes Sensei)

it works for me and has its place but im in no position to claim lineage, and of course I have no proof that it is how it was done many years ago,

outside of the fact it works and delivers basic stand up wrestling ability to link in the other techniques of the classical kata, something karatedo sorley lacks in relation to application potential.

for me this thread is done, I will keep one eye open and of course keep searching but to argue with people like Ed is pointless as their logic is correct on this matter, as far as I can see.

It's been a good thread, but for me the subject has now run it's course until solid evidence can be produced, and im almost convinced it would have by now if it exsisted.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#392323 - 05/05/08 02:52 PM Re: Tegumi, Funakoshi, FA.com, and medulanet [Re: shoshinkan]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Hi Jim.

Well other than the scant stuff which wont suffice there is nothing new. So I will cross train and see what happens.

Speak soon

Jude

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