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#391943 - 05/08/08 08:57 AM Re: Bassai! [Re: JoshuaMonjin]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 903
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
I like this kata too, I've not reached the level to learn it yet but I do appreciate its complexity

Has anyone read "The Meanings of Forms and Katas Adult Level" The reason why I ask is that the author who I have corresponded with (And indeed gains my utmost respect- it is a excellent 'book' and really does give an added incite into the kata, much in the way that Iain Abernathy does) advises that there are 14 'neck break' techniques in the Kata Bassai. As I have not practiced the Kata would anyone be able to advise if they have recognised at least a few of these, stating where in the kata is not necessary as there will be children reading these.

Osu
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

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#391944 - 05/08/08 10:08 AM Re: Bassai! [Re: Dobbersky]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
D,
One clue in bassai and in other forms is when you see hands moving in different directions. When you see one hand stationary and the other move past or away from it quickly you have the possibility of creating the tight rotation of an object. You have to look at the form as if , when the hands are "fisted" that there is something in the hands rather than just blocking or striking. Just an idea. Think about having an opponant in front of you on his knees facing away from you. If you were nice you could take his back, get you hooks in, slip in a rear naked and put him to sleep. That would be a great option. One the other hand, think about your left hand, thumb facing down, on the back of his head with a handful of hair and your right hand on their chin palm up with a hand full of beard. Then imagine you pull his chin like you are trying to start a 15 years old mower that doesn't have any gas in it.

Keep in mind 14 neck breaks sounds pretty dramatic and like "overkill". If the guy called them 14 "neck cranks" people might not look at the comment as just hyperbole. If you control the head you control the body.

Two weeks ago I was teaching a class with some chokes and neck cranks covered in it. As usual we try to be careful. I also let people apply things on me so I know the are getting it correct. Even though we use restraint I still got jacked up a bit and am having trouble turning my head to the right.

I would absolutely hate to have someone really crank something like that with any malice. Maybe it would be better to use the phrase "excessive force' rather than neck breaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IGC--9E7H8
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#391945 - 05/08/08 01:06 PM Re: Bassai! [Re: oldman]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

D,
One clue in bassai and in other forms is when you see hands moving in different directions. When you see one hand stationary and the other move past or away from it quickly you have the possibility of creating the tight rotation of an object. You have to look at the form as if , when the hands are "fisted" that there is something in the hands rather than just blocking or striking. Just an idea. Think about having an opponant in front of you on his knees facing away from you. If you were nice you could take his back, get you hooks in, slip in a rear naked and put him to sleep. That would be a great option. One the other hand, think about your left hand, thumb facing down, on the back of his head with a handful of hair and your right hand on their chin palm up with a hand full of beard. Then imagine you pull his chin like you are trying to start a 15 years old mower that doesn't have any gas in it.

Keep in mind 14 neck breaks sounds pretty dramatic and like "overkill". If the guy called them 14 "neck cranks" people might not look at the comment as just hyperbole. If you control the head you control the body.

Two weeks ago I was teaching a class with some chokes and neck cranks covered in it. As usual we try to be careful. I also let people apply things on me so I know the are getting it correct. Even though we use restraint I still got jacked up a bit and am having trouble turning my head to the right.

I would absolutely hate to have someone really crank something like that with any malice. Maybe it would be better to use the phrase "excessive force' rather than neck breaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IGC--9E7H8




Not bad oldman, however, I would suggest that grabbing and controlling a guy on the ground may not be so simple, unless they are already semi-conscious. If a step preceeds the neck crank I would suggest a kick or knee to the face before the neck crank is indicated. But I personally like neck cranks from the standing position and hammer fists, elbows, kicks, and knee strikes to downed opponents.
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#391946 - 05/08/08 01:23 PM Re: Bassai! [Re: medulanet]
LeeF Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Rogers, AR
It's always interesting to watch non-Kenkojuku Bassai-Dai, or any other kata for that matter.

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#391947 - 05/08/08 01:50 PM Re: Bassai! [Re: Salek]
ttruscott Offline
Annoying ex-Member who tries to advertise on every post

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 31
Loc: BC Canada
A good strong kata - I like the tradition of snap and focus you are obviously being taught.

If you would allow a nit picking old grump to make a suggestion:

At the start, 00:41 the first move after the turn back to the front, your soto uke, does not cross your center line. Traditionally this is a block (although it can be an arm break, throw or punch etc) but if you conceive it as a block, it should cross your center line so as to be able to cover the far lung.

While some styles do this by stretching the arm across the body, we do it by rotating the hips to the right to bring the soto uke across.

Ted

Surviving Armed Assaults: A Martial Artists Guide to Weapons, Street Violence, and Countervailing Force...my book review.


Edited by ttruscott (05/08/08 01:52 PM)
_________________________
"Fear, not compassion, restrains the wicked."

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#391948 - 07/01/08 12:06 PM Re: Bassai! [Re: Salek]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Salek,
I shot a version of Bassai last evening. In Chung Do Kwan it is sometimes referred to as Palcheck. I haven't been working on Bassai much as of late and The video shows it. This video shows some of the minor variations in movement between Shotokan Bassai Dai and Chung do Kwan Palcheck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adlq7KnjhqI

Maybe I could post some application clips in a few days.
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#391949 - 07/01/08 03:10 PM Re: Bassai! [Re: Salek]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Very nice Bassai!...if I may, keep your back stright vs. leaning over during the double punches.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#391950 - 07/01/08 04:24 PM Re: Bassai! [Re: schanne]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
schanne,
... not only during the double punches but leaning forward at other times too. I also need to relax more. The blocks could be a lot more crisp with less tension in the arms and shoulders. Also I need to keep my eyes and head up. Basically I just need to do what I keep telling my students to do.
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www.prairiemartialarts.com

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#391951 - 07/01/08 06:06 PM Re: Bassai! [Re: oldman]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Nice kata. We do the same one. Timing is a little different, probably a school to school thing.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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#391952 - 08/08/08 01:11 PM Re: Bassai! [Re: underdog]
shuri10 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 6
This kata is known among many karate systems. There are differences in the hand movements and speed. I also practice a similar version of Bassai from the Shuri-Ryu system.
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