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#391914 - 04/23/08 07:18 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: shoveldog]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

So Bisping "spanked" McCarthy, another lower tier fighter. Is that all ya got? Sort of proves the point doesn't it?




Er....no, not really. If Bisping was not a class above his oponent, he would not have dominated him so badly would he?

Far as i am concerned, I cant really see Sylva being beaten anytime soon, but Lutter is the only guy so far to run him close, and if you want to tell me that lutter looked anything but a 'lower tier fighter' the other night, then I suggest you get glasses

Bisping has the tools to deal with Franklin and/or Lutter on any given night, and as such, stands as much chance as anyone against Sylva at the moment.

I would agree that Franklin was overrated- I cant comment on the Shamrock fight, as I have not seen it. I do feel however, that Franklin has improved after his defeat by sylva. It is arguable that how a fighter responds to loss is more important than how he responds to victory. I think the franklin that fought on '83 is more impressive than the Franklin that held the belt.
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#391915 - 04/23/08 07:34 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: shoveldog]
Tom2199 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 834
Loc: England
there no fluidity in bispings combinations and it annoyed me even more when the commentator said great combinations from bisping, robotic arkward movment, no reach, poor technique (his knees looked the best out of all his game) and poor defence which has yet to be capitalised on. His ground and pound looks impressive against lower tier opponants but we have seen him struggle against competition such as rashad evans another mediocre fighter, he failed to even pull off any decent striking against him

Nate Quarry is also a bad striker i mean how can you call that a performance... he got tagged so easily on the way in with what little shots kalib threw, from what kalib did show yes it was very little it seemed he had the better movment nate looked flustered from the little short shots as if to think why am i getting hit. against a heavy handed good striker who likes to bang those are knock out opportunities, take a look at 3:36 of round 3 you can just see how robotic and stiff nate is.
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#391916 - 04/23/08 07:40 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: Tom2199]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

there no fluidity in bispings combinations and it annoyed me even more when the commentator said great combinations from bisping, robotic arkward movment, no reach, poor technique (his knees looked the best out of all his game) and poor defence which has yet to be capitalised on. His ground and pound looks impressive against lower tier opponants but we have seen him struggle against competition such as rashad evans another mediocre fighter, he failed to even pull off any decent striking against him

Nate Quarry is also a bad striker i mean how can you call that a performance... he got tagged so easily on the way in with what little shots kalib threw, from what kalib did show yes it was very little it seemed he had the better movment nate looked flustered from the little short shots as if to think why am i getting hit. against a heavy handed good striker who likes to bang those are knock out opportunities, take a look at 3:36 of round 3 you can just see how robotic and stiff nate is.




i thought his striking was strong and fluid, but we all see things differently. I am sure you will make short work of him when you get your chance as your career develops.
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#391917 - 04/23/08 07:42 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: Cord]
Tom2199 Offline
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Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 834
Loc: England
not really we are in different weight classes haha

on another note anyone looking forward to BJ Penn and Sherk, Penn is an animal!
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#391918 - 04/23/08 10:25 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: Tom2199]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


there no fluidity in bispings combinations and it annoyed me even more when the commentator said great combinations from bisping, robotic arkward movment, no reach, poor technique (his knees looked the best out of all his game) and poor defence which has yet to be capitalised on.




I disagree, I thought Bisping looked very comfortable and technical in his fight. He threw some good combinations and had McCarthy playing a turtle in his shell all fight. Sure McCarthy is a lower tier fighter, but that doesn't take anything away from how Bisping handled himself.

Quote:

His ground and pound looks impressive against lower tier opponants but we have seen him struggle against competition such as rashad evans another mediocre fighter, he failed to even pull off any decent striking against him




It will always be difficult to play ground and pound against a good wrestler like Evans because you're probably going to end up on the bottom. Also, don't forget that Bisping has just moved down a weight category. It's difficult to say just how much that will help him- he looks strong and fast at 185 and I think it will be more difficult for his opponents to take him down. Heck, Sherk had his problems at 170, and he was huge, but look at how he ripped through his opponents in the 155lb category.

And that leads me on to Sherk-Penn. I see Sherk winning it in a convincing decision with Penn on his back for most of the fight. I think Sherk will be just too strong and able to smother Penn's BJJ game. Can't see a knockout, and I'd never rule a submission artist like BJ out, but I would go with Penn based on his amazing performance against Franca, where he was able to bully franca on the ground. Sherk= one heck of a wrestler.

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#391919 - 04/23/08 11:44 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: shoveldog]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Quote:

Franklin's overrated, too. I doubt Rich was in on it, but Ken Shamrock obviously "put Rich over" in their fight; the video clearly shows Ken taking a dive without being hit. I could cite other examples, but what's that got to do with Bisping? Nothing.





I don't think Rich win over Mr. Ken Shamrock put him over it started him being recongnized but his convincing victory
over the next up and coming powerhouse Nate Quarry did the trick. Everybody expected Rich to get whipped bad even Knocked Out and Franklin did the knocking out and made it look vicious and easy. Nates career took a turn and Rich's soared that was suppose to be a tough fight and Franklin quiten all the naysayers in that fight.

Franklin, like Randy and GSP are prime example of MMA champs. I like Serra too after his UFC coaching and both fights verse GSP he a bad man.

Do you think Serra could beat Matt Huge? Standing he got a chance don't know if it goes to the ground Huge is still a hand ful anywhere imho.


Edited by Cord (04/24/08 03:30 AM)
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#391920 - 04/23/08 01:59 PM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: Neko456]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I will go with Sherk when he fights BJ Penn. BJ Penn is a good grappler by all means but the strength and speed of Sherk is far greater. I wonder however with him having to take steroids if that might change things slightly.

I would like to see Matt Serra and Matt Hughes fight; I think the fans would too and I think both would as well. I sit on the fence for who would win though ... a toss up in my books.
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#391921 - 04/24/08 06:47 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: Cord]
shoveldog Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 88
Quote:

Er....no, not really. If Bisping was not a class above his oponent, he would not have dominated him so badly would he?



Sorry, but this makes no sense. McCarthy is a lower tier fighter, so beating him is nothing to crow about. I didn't say Bisping wasn't a better fighter than McCarthy, I said that victory didn't mean anything. And no, it doesn't mean Bisping is another class because he won convincingly. Surely I don't have to explain why that conclusion doesn't logically follow.

As far as your statement about not finding a more "dominant display of standup in recent times," dude, you need to get out more. Revew Anderson Sylva's fights with Franklin, check out Cung le's demolition of Frank Shamrock, look at Lyoto Machida's fights, just to suggest a few. Bisping is nowhere near that level, and never will be. I know you like the guy, but jeez, don't embarrass yourself with that kind of hyperbole.

And, I admit, I don't like him as a result of the Hamill fight, and I had my say about that here:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...ue#Post15961747

As they say in my profession, this is an issue on which reasonable men may differ, and you and I certainly do.
I've said my piece, and I'm disinclined to waste any more pixels on Mr. Bisping. Onward and upward.

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#391922 - 04/24/08 07:25 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: Neko456]
shoveldog Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 88
Neko456,

We're getting a little off-topic here, but here's a link to a 3 second gif that will show Shamrock taking a dive in his fight against Franklin years ago.

http://www.ultimate-fighter.ca/Forum/viewtopic.php?id=5769

I really like Rich and I doubt he had anything to do with this, but you can't convince me that Shamrock didn't throw that fight. Watch Ken's feet and note that Franklin's right hand never connects. Looks like Ken learned a little from his professional wrestling days, eh?

If the link doesn't work, let me know, and I'll try to host the gif file myself and give you another link.

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#391923 - 04/24/08 07:41 AM Re: Tonights PPV UFC 83 [Re: shoveldog]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

here's a link to a 3 second gif that will show Shamrock taking a dive in his fight against Franklin years ago.

http://www.ultimate-fighter.ca/Forum/viewtopic.php?id=5769




Wow. Very damning video. Shamrock's feet start folding before Rich even touches him.

RE: Sherk vs. Penn. I think that Penn will take that fight, assuming his conditioning is up to it. I don't think Sherk's skill level is anywhere near what BJ's is. Penn gassing is the only way I see him losing that fight.
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