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#391828 - 04/22/08 08:45 AM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: MattJ]
Mark Hill Offline
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
First of all, you don't need laserlike precision for kyusho to work. Secondly, nerve, pressure and other "point" striking of vulnerable or important organs and manipulation of physiology to make an opponent more vulnerable to attack should always be used. Thirdly, kyusho is oftne used in self defence common with jujutsu where you are seized, thus offering up stable and open targets.
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#391829 - 04/22/08 11:38 AM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: jude33]
student_of_life Offline
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Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
there are about a half dozen or more points along the jaw that are considered preasure points, jude. the ko effect from a shot to the jaw results from a nerve being pinched when its struck. another way to ko someone is you simply smash them in the noggen, it also results from slips and falls, when the head is struck hard enough to shake the brain into contact with the inside of the skull wall.


Edited by student_of_life (04/22/08 11:39 AM)
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#391830 - 04/22/08 12:40 PM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: student_of_life]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

there are about a half dozen or more points along the jaw that are considered preasure points, jude. the ko effect from a shot to the jaw results from a nerve being pinched when its struck.



That is for certain people far, far to technical. When the fur is flying between an attacker and a defender depending on the nature of the attack, to my mind any k.o would result from the jaw bone being smashed. But I suppose that is depedent on the defenders training.
Quote:



another way to ko someone is you simply smash them in the noggen, it also results from slips and falls, when the head is struck hard enough to shake the brain into contact with the inside of the skull wall.




Smashing noggens in a none weapon defence as in if you mean the head of an attacker would be with soft tissue eg forearm, bottom of foot/ shoe so perhaps not realy enough blunt power for k.o. Should an attackers or even defenders head bouncing/ bounced off hard floor/ against a hard a surface does get the effects you described.

I think with certain things, particuler pressure points study different peoples training methods need to taken in to account.

Jude

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#391831 - 04/22/08 02:04 PM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: jude33]
student_of_life Offline
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Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
"That is for certain people far, far to technical. When the fur is flying between an attacker and a defender depending on the nature of the attack, to my mind any k.o would result from the jaw bone being smashed. But I suppose that is depedent on the defenders training."

well, im only talking about hitting someone straight on the chin, which pushes the jaw back into the head, theres a nerve between the jaw bone and the skull where it connects, and when it gets shoved back from a straight punch it pinches this nerve and its lights out for a second. a very long, painfull second. i don't think a straight punch on the point of the chin is too much to ask a karate man to do.

"I think with certain things, particuler pressure points study different peoples training methods need to taken in to account."

i always aim for "weak spots" when striking, you get more bang for your buck/round house kick, lol.
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#391832 - 04/22/08 03:08 PM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: MattJ]
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
Nsih,

Kyusho Jutsu is the method if attacking the vital points on the human body.

Ryukyu Kempo is really split between Oyata's group (the originator of the system) and George Dillman's camp (with offshoots from Dillman).

From this point forward I will discuss Ryukyu Kempo in Oyata's Lineage as this is what I train in:

Oyata's Ryukyu Kempo can be split into 3 section: Tuite Jitsu (joint locks), Kyusho Jitsu (vital point strikes) and Atemi Jitsu (distracting blows which weaken the body). All sections are taught to blend into each other as one single unit.

Kyusho Jitsu was a seemingly "lost" art which was re-introduced primarily by Oyata and Hohan Soken (although there were others out there) through a series of seminars.

In my opinion Oyata's version of Kyusho Jitsu is more realistic when compared to others who use Kyusho Jitsu being the fact that once it is learned you are taught to use it in a more full contact arena (Bogu Kumite). Others that I've seen tend to use a more static approach, which in my opinion, leads to false confidence in the true technique against a moving opponent. Of course I am biased due to the fact that I've been training this system for 12 years.

Side Note: Noticed that I've been quoted based on a previous post LMAO I am honored!
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#391833 - 04/22/08 07:23 PM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: Raul Perez]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
That is my understanding as well. Thank you.

For those who wonder about training in motion, it is like other learning. You learn from the known to the related unknown. While a person may begin training from a static posed situation, one moves on to more motion. Many expectations and rules change when there is motion.

This is not unlike other karate. Beginners may start training their wrist grab releases from a static stance concentrating on mechanically what happens in the hands. Eventually one needs to do the release in motion to get out of the way of a strike from the other hand... add counter... add ... add... according to your style.

Of course it takes years of training and I respect folks like Paul Perez who has 12 years invested. I do not have that. Is this any different from other aspects of karate? One does not become competant to defend against a real perpetrator in a few lessons or a few years. It takes many years.
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#391834 - 04/22/08 07:49 PM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: Raul Perez]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Raul, out of curiousity how can you practice kyusho through bogu gear? I remember a thread a number of years ago on e-budo where a student (I believe) of Oyata's argued the opposite, that kyusho itself needs to be done sans gear to know you are actually hitting correctly. His school did do alot of Bogu, they just didn't view the kyusho as being viable through the gear was my understanding. I could be misremembering though, was a long time ago.

Obviously Bogu kumite and similar does a ton for fighting ability, I just don't see how you'd really be hitting 'points' through all that thick-ass stuff, I own a set of Ryu te bogu gear myself and I can't see it helping me know whether or not i'm hitting a point, that stuff is freakin' sturdy.

What is the training method for kyusho in ryukyu kempo?


Edited by Zach_Zinn (04/22/08 08:17 PM)

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#391835 - 04/22/08 08:26 PM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Raul Perez Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 2805
Loc: Lake Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
Very few points obviously solar plexus, floating ribs, side of the jaw line stomach 5 <i think dont know the names>(i've dislocated a partner's jaw with a solid shot and had mine pop out too from a hard shot to the point) due to placement of the Men or helmet, forearm to the neck, radial nerve, and the side of the leg.

Those are the one's I've used successfully in my matches and I've had done to me as well. Bogu allows full contact blows to these areas without the fear of seriously injuring your partner. Notice the word seriously because you do get banged up, hurt, and occasionally injured.

Due to the equipment grab and rub points obviously cant be used... only strike points. That is what I meant and should have been more specific in my first post.

PS

Why do people keep calling me Paul lately? It's Raul... Paul with a woody as my father says


Edited by Raul Perez (04/22/08 08:29 PM)
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#391836 - 04/23/08 07:56 AM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Just to butt in, I think it probably possible to train in armour-we were hammering away with the knees at Gall Bladder 31 on Monday (dead leg point on the middle outside thigh in English) and even through thigh pads, it still has a demonstrable effect where the strikes are at full power but the pads obviously allow us to keep training where bare attacks to the point are too incapacitating to do it for long.

B

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#391837 - 04/24/08 08:33 AM Re: Kyusho Jutsu [Re: Raul Perez]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Hi
The information has been given as requested.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (04/24/08 08:43 AM)

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