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#390901 - 04/11/08 08:14 PM ENERGY Collection
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
I didn't know how to title this thread and came up with the first thing that came to mind forgive me.

Quick Question...

How many have collected energy to make the body really light..Allowing you to..Train harder, for example?

If you need me to clarify please let me know.

Thanks!

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#390902 - 04/11/08 08:22 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Please clarify.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#390903 - 04/14/08 11:05 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: BrianS]
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
Ok ill clarify. Im not aware of the correct terminology etc so pardon me.

Ive never decided to take up any form of fighting or any chi methods even though im a huge fan...a very lazy guy. Anyway heres the story so far.

Before the daya of youtube etc when all you could do was read about tai chi, one day i thought id try to just focus on breathing.

Nothing happened.

However the following, was purely accidental..if anyone could share any light on this.

1) Heres what happened...I might have fallen asleep i dont know but i opened my eyes, and my entire body just felt wierd. I swear it felt as though everything was in unison, connected, and i felt extremely light. What i mean is, if i was to raise my arm or move my leg, it felt so light and easy, you dont feel as though your moving.

Oh, and it felt POWERFUL! I mean i could just feel my strength. Why is this relevant? Well a few days before this happened i was reading up on the 'tuck planche' and 'planche' exercise. I tried to attempt the 'tuck planche' and it was soooo hard! I couldnt do it. I could not bring myself to even hold that position. The only position i could hold was the 'elbows inside of knees..frog type' position for like, 30 secs.

However, when my body changed states and id become extremely light and i felt the strength, the first thing that came to mind was..'try the tuck planche'

I attempted this and i maxxed out 12 reps of the tuck planche!!!! (so i held the tuck planche and did push ups on my hands in this position)

It felt incredible..but after the 12th i could feel my body returning to its normal state i just felt really drained.

2) This is another totally separate experience. This particular feeling i can now do after about 20 mins of focusing. (am i spelling this right?)

Basically, if i sit really still and quite, and if i imagine i am punching someone, i can feel..well ill call it a current because it feels like a current, that runs down my right shoulder, past the elbow, into my right hand..and my hand will clench and jerk forward into a punching motion. The feeling itself isnt powerful or anything, but this happens with me just imaginging it, i dont raise my hand or clench it knowingly. It only happens in my right arm i cant do it in my left.

Anyone? Any ideas whats going on? Im sure many of you who practise tai chi and stuff may know whats going on. Thanks for paying attention i know its rather long.

I hope you dont make fun of this because it does sound unreal i know. Which i why i posted in here instead of some bog standard skeptics forum because im hoping someone genuinely knows whats going on. :-)

By the way im not saying this is superstitious or mystical etc lol im just open to genuine ideas and thoughts.

Forgive me for posting such a small experience if some of you think its pointless me posting this.

By the way..I can only hold the tuck planche position for a little while, this was after the experience. I cant rep like i did though. I cant bring myself into that state again lol.


Edited by kapow (04/14/08 11:21 AM)

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#390904 - 04/15/08 12:44 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Before the daya of youtube etc when all you could do was read about tai chi, one day i thought id try to just focus on breathing.




Before the days of youtube you could seek the advice of a qualified instructor.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#390905 - 04/15/08 03:07 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: Leo_E_49]
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
Hmmm. Thats not even relevant. Maybe i should have said that where i am i need to drive atleast 40 miles to a city which has martial arts practice and tai chi instructors etc etc if i was really serious about it. I was curious at the time, now you can watch some videos on the priniciple of breathing and tai chi yoga etc but back then videos were hard to come by (free ones anyway) and a light read was good enough. I did not want to learn it then nor now. If i had access to a qualified instructor i would have asked about this then, there is a reason i have asked here. Try not to state the obvious next time and please post something useful if you know what im on about in the above post otherwise try not to exercise those fingers of yours with pointless twaddle.

Thank you

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#390906 - 04/15/08 06:36 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Leo's advice is sound imo.

You are just a poser until you do so.

p.s. Don't forget to keep breathing. Just limit your imigination when you do so.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#390907 - 04/15/08 10:45 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
energy collection? yeah, they come and pick up on Tuesdays here. we are expected to separate paper, plastic, glass and trash...then they use it to to recycle but also as an energy source to partially fuel it's own recycling.

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#390908 - 04/16/08 12:13 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
Sorin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Oxford, MS
As far as energy arts go, I have no idea. I doubt you'll get much of an answer asking the question the way you are though. It sounds too mystical for most martial artists not to poke fun at, as you can see. Could it be something like a weird adrenaline rush that you received? Maybe for some weird reason your body pumped up some chemicals and that's why you were able to do more then you usually do.

Sorin

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#390909 - 04/16/08 04:43 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Perhaps you mean energy cultivation and not collection. I don't think energy can be "collected" as such... that'll just defy the laws of physics.... you can however, store and release (like a spring) - is that what you mean?

I would suggest seeking out a qualified instructor who is willing to show you this. It's hard to correct it later down the track if you don't know what you're doing and, more than likely, doing it wrong...

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#390910 - 04/16/08 10:32 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I didn't know how to title this thread and came up with the first thing that came to mind forgive me.

Quick Question...

How many have collected energy to make the body really light..Allowing you to..Train harder, for example?

If you need me to clarify please let me know.

Thanks!




Are you sure your werent handling a capacitor in one hand and a light bulb in the other and fell asleep and dreamt about you personaly training?

You did state you were lazy.

And you dreamed about what it would be like to actualy physicaly train and the effects of the electricity in your body was interpeted by the brain in a different way.

A capacitor collects energy so there is the energy collection.

If handled incorrectly the body might recieve a shock so it might have felt as though you had this additional surge while you dreamt you were training harder.

If you held a light bulb in the other hand and it was lit up? there might be where the brain thought of the term light.

This statement could be considered shocking though.

Just a thought.
Jude


Edited by jude33 (04/16/08 10:37 AM)

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#390911 - 04/17/08 06:36 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: jude33]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Sounds to me like you just realised one of the ways your body can move. With years of practice, this will continue to get stronger, and you'll learn to do it in all directions.
An instructor will get you there ten times faster.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#390912 - 04/18/08 07:40 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: jkdwarrior]
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
Thank You to:

sorin
eyrie
jkdwarrior

For some decent answers.

Thanks to the rest for showing how silly, ignorant and skeptical they can be. I guess now we know why this site is so dead and not as busy as it used to be a couple of years back.

jkdwarrior you may be right..i was reading about yoga in-depth and may have found my answers. Cultivation sounds like a better term than collection lol.

Those who wish to be kept upto date on my progress let me know..im seeking instruction soon! could add that extra 'oomph' in ya martial arts practice..unless ofcourse everyones already ther and im lagging behind hehe

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#390913 - 04/21/08 10:09 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Your posts a couple of years ago were just as foolish.

Wisdom does not always come with age.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#390914 - 04/21/08 10:37 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
So where is this remote location you are from? I'm sure there are more training opportunities there than you think.

I'll be totally honest with you, it's an over active imagination. Tell us where you are and we will help you find good instruction. As for the rest i burned my self out on this subject years ago, right here in this section of the forum. So quite honestly there are more than a few threads here that already deal with this discussion, all you have to do is look.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#390915 - 04/21/08 11:29 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: laf7773]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
Hi kapow.
Ignore the cynics in here. There are too many people who are more concerned with knocking anything that's outslde their own limited imagination than actually trying to increase their own knowledge.
It makes them feel better about themselves by putting down anything they don't understand. You should feel sorry for them as they are holding themselves back.

When you focused on your breathing hopefully you started taking in more air with every breath without increasing your muscular tension. By doing this you increased the amount of oxygen (and qi) to every cell in your body. These cells desperately need oxygen but due to most people's poor breathing and postural habits every cell is in a constant fight for the oxygen resources it needs. When your breathing improves you will feel temporarily light headed and light of limb as the muscle and brain cells get used to a higher intake of oxygen and can function more efficiently hence increasing your muscular strength in the planche. Improving your breathing is probably the single most important thing anyone can do to improve their general health as it is so key to the good functioning of every aspect of our physicality.

The second aspect you mentioned was the visualisation of a punching technique. There are 2 ways of looking at this, call them eastern and western if you like.
It has been shown that visualisation of a movement triggers the same pathways in the brain as physically performing the movement. many top sportsmen use this kind of visualisation to keep them at the top of their game. It is also called mental rehearsal and there is a wealth of info around that goes deeper into it. The brain pathways were triggering which triggered the unconscious clenching of your fist.

The eastern mind says that the mind leads the qi so by visualising the movement you were sending your energy through the pathways that led to the punching technique. This was the current that you felt moving down your arm. The reason for it only happening in one arm would be due to an energy blockage in your right arm or shoulder preventing you from feeling the flow.

Hence 2 ways to look at the same thing. Does it matter which viewpoint you take? Many will say yes but what I think matters is the effect not the labels we put on it.

Now bring on the cynics and doubters. This should be entertaining.

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#390916 - 04/21/08 12:50 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: puffadder]
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
Brian S...I cant believe you go out of your way to post the things you post, what a waste of mental energy! I am happy with you leading your life with a closed mind, not even making a slight attempt to use that mental energy to try to understand other aspects of life, body and mind. Just because you may not be able to do something yourself, does not mean no one else can. Read the Guinness Book of Records. watch people who can manipulate their body and have control of mind over body, do something to broaden that mind of yours rather than shunning everything you cant comprehend or understand. You say 'wisdom does not come with age' you shouldn't give yourself the privilage of making such a comment. This also goes out to the other people who have the same ideals, although i mention BrianS specifically because i dont think he realised that the topic moved on from the initial questions.

I did ask to forgive me in my original post for what i posted. What that meant is if the post came across as too far fetched to some of you or you just thought of it as plain silly, ignore it and move on. Still some feel a massive urge to post pointless replies. What a life you must lead.

Let it go people. Fight that urge. Do not post on here to argue with some of the replies. I admit my post may have come across as a little over the top to some but all i wanted was some direction as to where to look for answers, or even better, some answers.

Thanks to those who do "get it" especially 'puffadder' who has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Reading about yoga, tai chi, even scientifically what you said has been explained. Thank you for such an informative reply. I hope to call on you again, and some others, in the near future for you to part with some of your knowledge. If you will, ofcourse.

Many Thanks to All...Even the cynics and those who felt good putting us down.

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#390917 - 04/21/08 02:05 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
kapow

Why should we ignore foolishness?

If we don't address it people might get the idea that by our silence we condone it.

Brian S quite rightly IMO questioned and addressed the points needed.

From my POV you seem really invested in not having anyone question you.

Plus, I always find it weird to have people lecture others about it being poor manners to judge and question--while they totally ignore that is EXACTLY what they are doing....your upset with "pointless replies" so you take the timne to pointlessly reply??

Makes little sense to me.

In terms of your first question---can you repeat it?

And more to the point--can people that do that move WITHOUT using some kind of "internal" energy?

Either way that would seem a good place to start thinking about this issue---if you can't repeat it--then what is the point?
And people are perfectly capable of doing the move without having to tap some kind of energy field....then that would seem to me to a better stating place for thought.....a reproducable effect that depends on tried and true reliable training methods that workk more or less the same for everyone.

Pretty simple approach as far as I'm concerned.


Edited by cxt (04/21/08 02:10 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#390918 - 04/21/08 06:33 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: cxt]
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
**sigh**...ill do this for your sake.

a) my last post isnt pointless at all.
try to look at the positive aspects of the post rather than the negative. ill let you work that one out.

b) ignore foolishness??
did you even bother to read the entire thread? did you attempt to make any sense of it at all? did you even attempt to understand any possibilities in what was being said?

c) invested in not having people question? lecturing people?
if people bothered to read the original post, then this thread would only be made up of viable replies. something to really consider or understand. not people taking the pi-ss, which is what i was trying to point out. you can quite rightly voice your opinion in an appropriate manner without making a mockery. i also went out of my way to apologise but this seems to have gone waay over some peoples heads.

d) you say 'if you cant repeat it then what is the point'
do you apply that throughout your life? could it not be possible that it may be repeated through appropriate instruction form someone who has an inkling of an idea what is happening? you can repeat many things in life if you wish to do so at your own will. try not to negate the idea.

e) believe me, nobody will take your silence as a sign that you 'condone' foolishness....
again, if you read the original thread, you would understand there was no need to think this way. if you read my most recent reply, again you would understand there was no need for you to feel in such a way. you come across as someone who doesn't understand or grasp the idea or concept behind what you read. the side of you which decides what is foolish has been appropriately addressed. i dont want to think of you as the mouth in speaking for those who decide for themselves what is foolish and what isnt.

f) you show you have not understood the original post.
you say 'can people do that without using some kind of internal energy'..nobody said you can or cant do something without using energy. you dont make much sense, and if you cant make much sense, i dont expect others to make much sense to you..as you said 'makes little sense to me'

g) by the way, the questions posed in this thread have pretty much been answered to the best of others abilities.

if you wish to ignore the last few comments made in my original post..well, the enitire post even, and...
...if you feel that the original post is bull..i totally understand. you dont need to post to tell me this.
...if you feel the need to make fun, i totally understand. you dont need to post to tell me this.
i dont mind anyone with questions, but read the entire thread and ask away as you would in a proper manner.
is civility too much to ask?

i know i may have not been so civil, i understand that, i wish to stop that, so why dont we keep all posts from here on civil. lets curb the need for put downs, negativity etc.

please leave the posting to those who wish to contribute some information, or experiences which they wish to share, which relates to the original post.

now THIS is what i call a pointless post by myself. gone against what i shouldn't be doing. we all have our moments.


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#390919 - 04/21/08 09:00 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: puffadder]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:

Improving your breathing is probably the single most important thing anyone can do to improve their general health as it is so key to the good functioning of every aspect of our physicality.






Amen to that, Puffadder!
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#390920 - 04/21/08 09:27 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
kapow

So you AGAIN, you post a long rambling post about what a pain it is to have to deal with people that post long rambling posts?
Pot I would like to introduce you to the kettle---later we will all throw stones at everyone elses glass houses.

Ya, cause that makes sense.

There seems to be a differnce of opinon as to what counts as a "viable reply"---you seem to be laboring under the delusion that "viable" means something like "wow--your so brillant and make such interesting points--I agree with you fully!!!!!"
Where-as I see "viable" as having a broader meaning---you may not like what you read---but it might do you some real good.....consider that the person needing a open mind "might" be YOU.

BTW the assumption that because I and others disagree a bit about what you posted means "you don't understand or grasp the idea and concept" is a little too hubris filled for my tastes---and people claim that martial arts teach humility.

(as an aside, I have been told more than once that your art is often a reflection of yourself---so arrogant posts like this might just be the reason your having trouble tapping your internal power. )

If you don't grasp why being able to do that move WITHOUT using internal power is relevent--then there is little I can do for you.......rule # of logcial inquiry is alternative explinations.

You "share your expereinces" on a PUBLIC FORUM you invite PUBLIC comment...either deal with it or don't....but life is often rough I recommend a helmet...this is not your personal blog spot.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#390921 - 04/21/08 09:31 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: puffadder]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Puffy

Please don't assume people are "cynics and doubter" based upon looking upon kapows posts with some degree of "huh???"

You don't know us, how we train or what we belive....all you know is that several of us find kapows posts a bit dodgy.

You read into that what you will.....that don't mean its at all accurate.

Just something to consider.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#390922 - 04/21/08 09:38 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: cxt]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
A BIT dodgy? LOL!

"Uh yeah, I was concentrating on breathing one day and um I got like all strong and stuff!!!"

_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#390923 - 04/22/08 02:28 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: puffadder]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Puffy

What exactly have you said that hasn't already been said here before?

Quote:

There are too many people who are more concerned with knocking anything that's outslde their own limited imagination than actually trying to increase their own knowledge.




If you had been here more than a week you would know this isn't true. The fact of the matter is there have been several people come in posting things just like this who eventually start making claims of no touch knock outs, throwing chi balls and such. The discussion always ends up the same way. The simple fact is there is nothing we can do for this individual that will actually help him achieve any goal other than his possible desire to discuss the mythical abilities of an unproven phenomenon.

Quote:

It makes them feel better about themselves by putting down anything they don't understand. You should feel sorry for them as they are holding themselves back.




How do you know they don't understand this topic? Simply because they chose to respond sarcastically to yet another questionable post, which incidentally isn't the first from this particular individual. Ever think maybe their reaction is a direct reflection of their knowledge and experience and not a lack there of? Don't misinterpret people’s sarcasm with ignorance, which in itself is ignorance.

For you comments on oxygen intake, simply taking in more oxygen doesn't automatically increase oxygen transmission to the cells for increased performance. Proper breathing techniques and posture do help greatly but not to the extent kapow described and certainly not with the results he mentioned. Simply laying calm and controlling your breathing isn't going to take you from being unable to do a tucked planche to doing 12 reps then going into push ups. 2,3DPG is what causes the oxygen in your blood to release into your cells for increased strength and endurance. Simply taking in more oxygen doesn't increase 2,3DPG. It's actually the restriction of oxygen that does this. This is why training at higher altitudes can produce more endurance at lower altitudes. There are restrictive breathing techniques such as that of Dr. Andrew Weil's that if done over several weeks can trick your body into thinking it is at a higher altitude resulting in an increase of 2,3DPG and subsequently an increase of oxygen being released to the cells.

Visualization is very helpful for most any physical activity or sport but there is a huge difference in the benefits of visualization and them causing an involuntary physical reaction. It doesn't happen. The portion of the brain used for visualization and movement are two different things.

kapow,

You complain about people’s reaction to your posts and how few tried to actually help you but you completely ignored my offer to help you find instruction. So i'll ask again, what city do you live in. Tell us where you are and i'm sure someone here can point you in the direction of a good instructor.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#390924 - 04/22/08 12:06 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: laf7773]
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
Ok people.

Chi Balls and all that other Dragonball Z Stuff. Lets leave that for another thread. It has no place here.

The reason i didn't take a liking to sarcasm and silly responses is because I HAVE ASKED PEOPLE IN MY ORIGINAL POST TO AVOID SUCH POSTINGS AS THEY ARE NOT NECESSARY, AS I MAY UNDERSTAND THEIR SKEPTISM TOWARDS SUCH A POST!

Dont question whether what i posted is b****cks or not. I did NOT post to CONVINCE everyone this REALLY happened. Which is why, i KINDLY, asked for you, to FORGIVE ME, if the post came across as b****cks.
I KINDLY asked to not take the mick, and for posts to shed some light on what happened, NOT what cant happen. I, Me, created this thread with certain criteria entailed, yet this was ignored.

I know its a PUBLIC FORUM and as such i should expect PUBLIC POSTS, but IF I HAVE ALREADY KINDLY ASKED YOU NOT TO POST RUBBISH/SARCASTIC/NOT VERY FUNNY REPLIES..WHY SHOW IGNORANCE AND CONTINUE TO DO SO?

IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE OR POST CRAP GO MAKE YOURSELF A NEW THREAD SO YOU CAN ARGUE AND WHINGE AND MOAN AND PUT DOWN AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE.

Do you not THINK i know how my post comes across as 'mystical'? Do you not think i already foresaw people relating to this as yet another Dragonball Z wannabe post or the like? Which is WHY I SPECIFICALLY asked, in my original post, to not take the mick, be sarcastic and post only if you understand what i wrote. Some have understood, others have not.

I know people find it questionnable etc etc. I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME to make up stuff and then post it in forums. This happened, believe it or not, and i believe it will happen again.

Now tell me what it says about you for ignoring the content of my post.

Laf7773..I am not in a remote location as i mentioned it was about 40 miles to get any form of martial arts instruction. I know where i can get instruction and what type. In my original thread i was talking about a few years ago if that is what you are relating to. I now know what instruction is available to me and where to go to get it. Appreciate your help.
Also, you say to puffy whether peoples reaction to this post is a result of their direct knowledge and experience and not lack of. It doesn't matter how long he has been on here. He obviously made the comment because of the knowledge he has about this forum, about other members posts, and about this thread. Whether he has been on a day or a week. You can never have enough knowledge, you can never have enough experiences. There is always something to learn or experience no matter how adept someone thinks of themselves in any given criteria. You'll know why it is a lack of knowledge as you read the post.
Did you take the time to consider that my post may be a direct reflection of an experience i had? Or maybe puffy may have experienced something similar? What he mentions is something to consider, not a solid answer to the questions i asked. He understands that i could have gone through what i explained, without thinking of it as a 'questionnable' post, or something similar, which is why he dismissed the cynics. Others experience may not fit the bill to this type of experience, it doesn't mean it cant happen. You say my post of before were questionnable, they may have been questionnable but they werent dismissed. i havn't actually gone through my previous posts, thats history, but im sure they didn't spark argument. They surely weren't posted for the hell of it. If i have a question, no matter how silly it may sound, ill ask it because if you dont ask, youll never know.

CXT…you come across as a very confusing individual. There is a difference of opinion about a ‘viable reply’, but in the context of this thread you misunderstand. Why don’t you consider this…for arguments sake..i did have the experience mentioned, I do believe it is possible to repeat, therefore MY POST IS LOOKING FOR A REPLY WHICH CAN MAKE SENSE OF WHAT HAPPENED TO ME AT THE TIME. Which is what I am looking for. Which is why my 'viable reply' is something that can bring light to this, which is why i come across the way i came across to you in regards to "wow--your so brillant and make such interesting points--I agree with you!" and dismiss
the silly remarks and negative comments that are being made. I dont need people to tell me 'ITS NOT POSSIBLE' because it happened. Like i said im not here to cinvince, im here to look for answers. Do you really REALLY THINK that by some of you saying its not possible or it is dodgy etc etc, I am automatically going to say I may have been dreaming or hallucinating???

Of course not! I know what happened and it did happen which is why I posted. I have already made it clear countless times that if I was to put myself in your shoes, I know it may come across as a questionable post. ATTEMPT to consider the post by putting yourself in my shoes for once. This is to the rest of you too.
People claim martial arts teaches humility. You quite easily mention this as though you believe it. You also mention how an art can reflect an individual, you are a reflection of yourself, your conduct is a reflection of yourself, many things can reflect who you are. You don’t need an art to tell you this. Ask people what they think of you if you want to know how you come across, one of the many ways you can learn about yourself. Even patience can be tested. I write in CAPS LOCKS not to shout, but to drill in the points I was trying to make as I have made them so many times and yet they are being ignored time and time again.

Look, if everyone can read through this thread, then none of you should have the problem of reading about BREATHING, FULL YOGIC BREATH, YOGA, CHAKRAS, MEDITATION, TAI CHI, BODILY ENERGY, BRAIN WAVE ACTIVITY, NEUROSCIENCE and the ELECTRIC CURRENT which your brain can produce and your body can become sensitised to.

(yes, the brain does produce a current, if you read the early part of this thread, an idiot decided to make fun of such a claim without even thinking about whether this does happen, and how this electricity differs from that required by a toy train, for example)

READ about the above mentioned topics, in-depth. IF ANY OF YOU COME BACK WITHOUT QUESTIONING YOUR OWN CAPABILITIES, A DIFFERENCE OF WHAT YOU BELIEVED CAN AND CANNOT BE ACHIEVED, AND COME BACK WITHOUT EVEN A SINGLE QUESTION (in your head) THAT MAY SEEM 'dodgy' or 'questionnable' or 'mystical'....

Then...well so be it. I just hope you come back with more than what you knew.

Also, why not read up on people with extra-ordinary abilities.

The blind kid who uses 'echo location' to navigate through the world? not possible you say? look it up.
The guy who can stick objects to his body, even fridges, by using his mind, and how scientists to date dont have an explanation. not possible you say? how naive. look it up.
The fella who can fit in a tennis racket, and can twist his body 180 degrees. ooh not possible is it?

There are so many people that can do things that defy your own beliefs, but its been proven to be achieved. The internet isnt just for porn. Try to learn something new.

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#390925 - 04/22/08 12:24 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
As a matter of fact Iaf visualisation, partucularly when relaxed does cause physical reactions. It is called an ideomotor response. It is used a lot in hypnosis and other relaxation training. Is it not possible that kapow's enhanced breathing induced a state of deeper relaxation than he was used to which created ideal conditions for ideomotor responses? Under even light hypnosis the human body is capable of greatly exceeding an individuals normal level of strength eg holding arms outstretched for half an hour without strain or previous training.
ps before you go on about hypno hocus pocus I am a qualified hypnotherapist having studied at the London College of Clinical Hypnosis.

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#390926 - 04/22/08 12:40 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
kapow

Ya, the thing is that nobody knows you--we only know what you post and IMO your just tail chasing here.

As far as "confusing" goes---I am just as confused at your stuff as you claim to be about mine.

I never said it was not possible--just questionable.....and your overreaction pretty much tells the story there.

I have zero interest in "putting myself in your shoes"--I have quite enough happening in my own shoes thank you very much.

Again, please do no lecture people on this forum as if we are ignorant about all sorts of aspects of the internal arts----at the very least please don't assume that just because we disagree with you that we are ignorant....the plian truth is that BECAUSE we have both information and personal expereince we disagree.

Its pretty much not a question that some people can do extraordinary things...its almost always a question of its really paranormal....and more importantly if its teachable.

Tell you what there is a nice man, James Randi, that is offering 1 MILLION DOLLARS for anyone that can perform paranormal feats in a lab---he has been offering the prize for a least 10 years now.
As of today nobody has ever claimed the money.....why don't you contact him...I assume that you can use a million bucks..yes?
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#390927 - 04/22/08 01:10 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: cxt]
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
Hey you are entitled to your opinion tail chasing or whatever. I never laid claim that people on this forum are ignorant because they disagree, you constantly, constantly miss the point CXT. I wont explain, ill let you figure it out.

paranormal or not, teachable or not, alot of abilities have been proven with or without you having 'personal experience and information'
if you continue to not believe in people who can do such things, people who have made the guinness book of records because of their feats, for example, and not even being understanding enough to see my viewpoint from my perspective rather than your own because you have too much going on (and the fact that you keep missing the point) then thats enough said about you.

i am not saying i am paranormal or have paranormal capabilities. i dont lay claim to be able to do something not scientifically explainable. im sure the state i was in can be explained. you keep taking this to different levels one more absurd than the next. no i dont need a million dollars, im quite content with what i have going at the moment.

i think its getting to a point now where you dont have anything intelligent to say towards the original topic and the both of us just keep digging into each other.

say what you will regarding this post but unless it has something to do with the original post i cease to reply.

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#390928 - 04/22/08 06:27 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
kapow

If paranormal abilties have been "proven" then someone is 1 million dollars richer.

People make the Book of World Records for shoving the most smokes in their mouth or having the longest toenails.....big deal.

BTW just because its in the Book--don't make it paranormal.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#390929 - 04/22/08 08:50 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: cxt]
kapow Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 18
eerm yes...part of the point i was making!?

thanks for the input.....i guess

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#390930 - 04/22/08 08:58 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
The human has physical limitations. No one yet has proven anything beyond physical limitations.

We have to obey the laws of nature like gravity and such.

There is nothing paranormal about martial arts.
"What one man can do, another can do."
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#390931 - 04/24/08 07:25 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: kapow]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

As a matter of fact Iaf visualisation, partucularly when relaxed does cause physical reactions. It is called an ideomotor response. It is used a lot in hypnosis and other relaxation training.




I'm well aware of the ideo motor response. It results in a twitch while under hypnosis usually in response to suggestions from the hypnotist. It has no bearing on what kapow claims.

Quote:

Originally posted by kapow: and my hand will clench and jerk forward into a punching motion. The feeling itself isnt powerful or anything, but this happens with me just imaginging it, i dont raise my hand or clench it knowingly. It only happens in my right arm i cant do it in my left.




This isn't IMR, it's over active imagination. Vivid, graphic visualization of a task can cause your brain to fixate on the task and your muscle memory will attempt to complete the task but stops because consciously you know your not actually performing it. This results in a slight twitch and would be achievable with either hand equally. It resembles nothing like what kapow says his reaction was.

Quote:

Is it not possible that kapow's enhanced breathing induced a state of deeper relaxation than he was used to which created ideal conditions for ideomotor responses?




Yes but not with the results he claims. It's either exaggeration or a teens over active imagination.

Quote:

Under even light hypnosis the human body is capable of greatly exceeding an individuals normal level of strength eg holding arms outstretched for half an hour without strain or previous training.




He wasn't under hypnosis and to say it was self hypnosis is a bit of a stretch even for this discussion. If a person under hypnosis were to perform the action you mentioned it would be at the direction of the hypnotist, not because they just thought "hey i'll try this".

Quote:

ps before you go on about hypno hocus pocus I am a qualified hypnotherapist having studied at the London College of Clinical Hypnosis.




Congratulations, so am i now supposed to take your word as gospel? I know a few hypnotists myself, one of which was a moderator in this very section before i was. Maybe i should invite him to join the conversation, he loves these.

kapow,

Let's break down your initial post and see if we can pin point exactly what it is you are claiming.

1. You may have dozed off and woke to a feeling of euphoria.
2. During this state you were able to perform physical feats beyond your normal capabilities.
3. You visualized punching someone and felt a "current" run down your shoulder into your right hand resulting in your hand clinching and jerking forward into a punching motion.

Is this about right? I'll just be blunt here since you aren't going to listen to anything anyone says unless they agree with you. I think it's nothing more than an over active imagination mixed in with a little exaggeration. Do i believe you felt something? Certainly, but i doubt the resulting physical actions are as you described. Most likely you were already capable of doing "12 reps in a tucked planche" but were just too lazy or unmotivated to do it prior to this.

Quote:

I know its a PUBLIC FORUM and as such i should expect PUBLIC POSTS, but IF I HAVE ALREADY KINDLY ASKED YOU NOT TO POST RUBBISH/SARCASTIC/NOT VERY FUNNY REPLIES..WHY SHOW IGNORANCE AND CONTINUE TO DO SO?




Regardless people are going to respond how they see fit. No one has broken any forum rules in their responses. The simple fact is they doubt your validity and credibility so they aren't taking it seriously.

Quote:

IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE OR POST CRAP GO MAKE YOURSELF A NEW THREAD SO YOU CAN ARGUE AND WHINGE AND MOAN AND PUT DOWN AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE.




Just because you originated the thread doesn't mean you can dictate who posts in it or what they post.

Quote:

Do you not THINK i know how my post comes across as 'mystical'? Do you not think i already foresaw people relating to this as yet another Dragonball Z wannabe post or the like? Which is WHY I SPECIFICALLY asked, in my original post, to not take the mick, be sarcastic and post only if you understand what i wrote. Some have understood, others have not.




If you knew it would be accepted in this way, why are you acting so surprised? Haven't you read any of the previous posts dealing with similar content? That's why i said in my initial post that this has been covered, if you had read any of those other posts not only would you have gotten the answers that are typical for this forum but you would have known the reaction you would get.

Quote:

I know where i can get instruction and what type




Then i suggest you take up instruction if it's available. Watching videos on youtube and reading books isn't going to teach you the martial arts or anything remotely close. If you’re not interested in training then why are you here? This forum is for the discussion of the martial arts, internal arts specifically (this section). It's not for the discussion of unproven or un-provable phenomenon. What you are talking about has nothing to do with your training as you have no training nor seem to desire any. You would rather gain your "experience" through the internet.

Quote:

Also, you say to puffy whether peoples reaction to this post is a result of their direct knowledge and experience and not lack of. It doesn't matter how long he has been on here. He obviously made the comment because of the knowledge he has about this forum, about other members posts, and about this thread.




Yes it does matter how long he's been here because he doesn't know the members here enough to know what there level of knowledge is, which is the point i was making. Just because they don’t believe in the same things doesn’t mean they are closed minded or ignorant of the subject matter.

Quote:

Look, if everyone can read through this thread, then none of you should have the problem of reading about BREATHING, FULL YOGIC BREATH, YOGA, CHAKRAS, MEDITATION, TAI CHI, BODILY ENERGY, BRAIN WAVE ACTIVITY, NEUROSCIENCE and the ELECTRIC CURRENT which your brain can produce and your body can become sensitised to.




You seem to be under the misunderstanding that the people responding to you here have no exposure to these things. I for one have some experience with tai chi, yoga, meditation etc. Just because people are calling BS doesn't mean they don't know anything about the subjects you have brought up. Quite the contrary, they are calling BS because they DO know.

Quote:

The blind kid who uses 'echo location' to navigate through the world? not possible you say? look it up.




That’s not an “extraordinary” ability. It’s quite common for blind people to do this, you or I could do this with practice.

Quote:

The guy who can stick objects to his body, even fridges, by using his mind, and how scientists to date dont have an explanation. not possible you say? how naive. look it up.




There is an explanation and it’s been given. Your so keep on looking things up on the internet and reading about it, give it a shot. You can start here. http://www.randi.org/jr/082704gluton.html#7 Just click on magnetic flubbery. You can also try this one. http://www.randi.org/joom/swift/swift/swift-march-14-2008.html#i14 and click on pot head man. If these guys TRULY had magnetic ability a light coat of talcum powder wouldn’t defeat them.

Quote:

There are so many people that can do things that defy your own beliefs, but its been proven to be achieved. The internet isnt just for porn. Try to learn something new.




Here is the thing, these things can and have been explained. Now I’ve never seen someone twist their body 180% but if it has happened without serious injury to the person it’s easy to explain that with a simple medical exam of the individual. Things like the no touch knock out, moving people with your chi or suddenly gaining exceptional endurance and strength after dozing off for a few minutes while “meditating” is not possible nor is has it been proven.

Quote:

READ about the above mentioned topics, in-depth.




One last thing about this statement. Most of us, me included, are doing much more than reading about them. We are going out and training, testing and actually EXPERIENCING these things. I can’t begin to tell you how many frauds and fakes I’ve come across in the states and various other countries who have all made exceptional claims about the effects of and uses of chi and NONE of them have been able to prove their claims in a blind test. I have yet to find someone able to KO or move me without touching me. It’s always the same thing “you don’t believe” or “there is too much negative energy here” or my favorite “your tongue was touching the roof of your mouth and your big toe was up, that’s why it didn’t work”.

How about instead of sitting in front of the computer all day reading about the martial arts and watching videos about them you actually get out and train. You aren’t going to learn the martial arts from videos and reading, you will only learn about them.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#390932 - 04/24/08 11:51 AM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: laf7773]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
Wow. A guy says he experiences something and I try to help with giving an opinion and another guy apparently is so incenced with the first guys experience and my opinion of it that he knocks off a 1500 word reply to tell us how stupid we are!! What a waste of time and effort.

Apparently Iaf is the allseeing. We must all respect the great wisdom of his teachings (despite the fact he has no respect for anyone else).

I will now go away and commit seppuku with great shame.

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#390933 - 04/24/08 01:22 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: puffadder]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Puffy

Like I already tried telling you and kapow---the assumption that everyone that disagrees with you is "stupid" etc was first made by you 2 guys.

You get what you give......around here if not always in life.

If you want to write compliants----start with kapows and to a lesser extent your own starements and treatment of forum members.

laf took the time to post a detailed response......he treated kapows posits as legit and answered each in turn.

As mentioned prior the only ones casting themselves as "all seeing" around here are you and kapow.

And disagreement with you 2 seemingly is not tolerated either.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#390934 - 04/24/08 02:02 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: cxt]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
Don't worry. I won't bother again. Apparently Iaf was there, he knows exactly what was going on inside kapow's body and mind and so he wrote the 1500 word essay to tell us all what was really going on. Shame he can't be bothered to write puffadder but prefers to use a version that irritates to show how little respect he has for others.

Maybe kapow was making it all up, maybe not. I don't know and frankly couldn't give a [censored] anymore.

And now we wait for the response. These arguments go on and on and on and on because nobody will back down.
Write what the hell you like. I won't respond anymore on this thread.

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#390935 - 04/24/08 02:33 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: puffadder]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
puffy

No more so than you and kapow seem to feel that:

A-This is your own personal blog spot and everyone here is "supposed" to simply hold our tounges and listen to whatever you feel like saying.

B-Taking people to task for somehow failing to understand that when you guys "speak" YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE QUESTIONED OR COMMENTED ON....sorry I missed the memo.

Wouldn't it have been easier for eveyone if you had just not posted anymore.....Oh...but that would mean you would have had to give up a chance to lecture to eveyone....certainly can't have THAT now can we.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#390936 - 04/24/08 08:21 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: cxt]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Chris,

You are just awesome with words,lol, you are killing me!!!

BTW, it was nice to see you again in K.C.!!

Hopefully next time we can get some training in.

_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#390937 - 04/24/08 08:31 PM Re: ENERGY Collection [Re: BrianS]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
I am locking this thread because it has degenerated into a slanging match. Play nice people or...
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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