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#389858 - 04/12/08 10:53 AM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: BrianS]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Quote:


Yes, but can you strike the horse full power with a WC sidekick?




Wrong question youngling. You should ask Why can't you?

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#389859 - 04/12/08 11:15 AM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: cxt]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Quote:

don

Again, thank you for illustrating my point about where your "really" coming from so neatly.




No CXT I should thank you for proving their are those who post on forums only to bask in their own ignorance by believing that if they don't know it or can't do it it must not be possible.

I post to share information you post to deny it's existence.

Everyone knows in martial arts they only only proof is in the physical seeing ,feeling and doing not internet mouth boxing. You of course ignore the chance to see for yourself better to deny than to be proved wrong.

Yes, you are right I and hundreds of years of CMA development are wrong. Chinese and western medical knowledge are wrong Orthopedic surgeons are wrong. Chiropractors are wrong. You though through your vast knowledge of what exactly are right.

You have offered the perfect exhibit of why Yip Man said he only liked to teach intelligent people. The intelligent examine, study and explore before coming to a conclusion. Not you. You have a decision first and then only look for that which supports your position.

All one has to do is look at how to cherry picked parts of my posts to see the validity of what I have said.

No doubt you also believe the world is 6000 years old and the Flintstones is a documentary.

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#389860 - 04/12/08 12:10 PM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: donchisau]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73

Further note. You also have proved my point about people not being able to look at videos and understand what they are seeing. All one has to do is look at a tape of how karate or take your dough kicks compared to how wing chun kicks and the difference in use of the bone structure is clear.

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#389861 - 04/12/08 12:44 PM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: donchisau]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
don

I'd love to "examine and explore" as you put it....problem is that I only have your drumbeating insistance that you know what your talking about.....I have nothing but your words to "examine."

I have asked you to post a vid so I/we can "examine" that...but you have refused--multiple times.

I again refer to you to how you speak to everyone....or rather how you arrogantly pontificate to everyone that so much as questions you

Lets just look at a few of the most recent:

"bask in their own ignorance"

"you ignore the chance to see for yourself better"

"No doubt you also belive that the world is 6000 years old and the Flintstone is a documentay."

See, disagreement with you means I'm stupid......anyone whom disagrees with don MUST be less than smart......smart people would agree with don....and you wonder why people think you arrogant and a blowhard?

When a person points out that hitting brick walls with FULL POWER is probably not a good idea either for being risky and not really telling you much is attacked in such an ad homonium fashion...well it speaks volumes as to the childish mindset and worldview of the attacker......that would BTW be "you" don.

Plus, I have never so much as mentioend "western medicine" or "orthopedic surgeons" or "chiropractors."

You have behaved very poorly here don.......I seriously doubt that you have much of a clue about which you speak....mainly because people that ARE skilled and informed seldem feel such a knee-jerk need to belittle people and speak down to them as you have.

But even if your do...still would not wish to study or learn from such a person....your attitude and arrogance might rub off on me..taint me.

Many ways to learn how to fight...many teachers, I'd rather learn from someone with just a little bit of decency in how he or she treats others.

I have come to expect just a little bit more in one who claims to be a teacher than what you have demonstated.

If your willing to be such a horse arse on-line...then I pity and worry for your actual students..heaven help one of them who might dare to question the "Great and Powerful OZ"....err....a...I mean..."don".



Edited by cxt (04/12/08 12:50 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#389862 - 04/12/08 04:28 PM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: donchisau]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:


Further note. You also have proved my point about people not being able to look at videos and understand what they are seeing.








Your a bit wrong on that one. Observation skills have to be trained. Don. So while posting a video wouldnt perhaps explain everything it would show somethings.
I find videos are a good method for a person to check technique.


Quote:


No CXT I should thank you for proving their are those who post on forums only to bask in their own ignorance by believing that if they don't know it or can't do it it must not be possible.






What isnt possable? There is plenty I know nothing about.
Do you mean hard kicking technique? Mine are ok. Like everything else I would prefer them to improve.
So could you post something that might improve them?.

Quote:



All one has to do is look at a tape of how karate or take your dough kicks compared to how wing chun kicks and the difference in use of the bone structure is clear.




Which kick and can you explain in more detail?
I am not going to ramble on and defend kicking techniques because some were adjusted for different tasks.
Techniques adjusted for certain tag sports dont always have what I want.

I think you might have missed out a few vital elements in the bone structure statement.

Bones done move alone, they need something to move them.
Even picking them up and throwing then requires some form of external force. Weak external force might mean a weak kick (if some of the laws of physics arent applicable?) .



Don?

And a kick like a punch isnt always going to land a hundred percent how it should

So what exactly are you meaning with bone structure ?

This is where videos come into play. Show what you think is a wrong kick and then show what you think is correct.

Otherwise what is the point of posting all this stuff?

If you have made wing chun work fine. Good man!!. But Posting comments the way you are leads nowhere. For all I know you could be a fake? Not saying you are but how do I know?

Which kick would be a good place to start?.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (04/12/08 04:36 PM)

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#389863 - 04/12/08 05:04 PM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: jude33]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjGCoTHsKzw&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH13kYFzfFk&NR=1



Here is more than likely not to good of an example seen as it is sport orientated but any way its there. The wing chun guy does seem to take a lot of thigh kicks. Don where would you see your technique of using the correct kicking technique helping any of these poor guys?

Or in again sport against this guy below? He is good . and he posts educational videos, as do some of his students etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopqMm14XMw&feature=related

One thing that occurs to me is if a person want to study effective anything then study the guys who use it for real.
Ok the videos are sport. But I find for part of the teachings to be used in self defence some of what they are doing has its uses.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (04/12/08 05:15 PM)

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#389864 - 04/13/08 03:37 PM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: donchisau]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:


Yes, but can you strike the horse full power with a WC sidekick?




Wrong question youngling. You should ask Why can't you?




I'm 34 and not the one making false claims in a condescending manner on an internet forum,you are, old fart.

"Have you ever seen Wing Chun." That's your topic, then you go on to make claims that YOU won't back up.
I'd like to see WC in the way you describe. I'm sure it's completely awesome,but until you put up...shut up.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#389865 - 04/18/08 04:48 PM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: jude33]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Jude - You are making an assumption that just because some one tries to apply something it means they actually know what they are doing. Everywhere you go in life there are folks in every profession who don't have a clue hence malpractice insurance etc.

Anyone that competes deserves respect.

Wing Chun has an instruction book of sorts. The Kuen Kuit ot fist sayings. They give direction on how to apply the concepts.

For kicking first balance is the most important thing . You never kick if off balance. Never kick if you might lose your balance.
Never kick unless the opponents hands are occupied.
Never kick above the waist.
Use chum sum gur after contact is made. This is a method of using the hips.
A kick is a step and a step is a kick.
In wing chun you sink into the support leg. It never straightens as the kick extends.

Do you see the wing chun people in the vids doing these things?
In addition there are 3 basic steps ,circle,triangle and arrow. Are these things being done?
Wing chun trains simultaneous use of both and hands and at advanced stages both hands and a leg at the same instant. Is this what they are doing?
Footwork is to be fast and nimble. Is the footwork this way?
Front or side facing are to be done without delay. Are they quickly changing their body position?
If hand control is lost rush in like a flood. Is this what happens when they loose control of the opponents hands? Do they ever get control?
Join you opponents center of gravity. Is this done or attempted?
These are some of the basic rules for the application of
wing chun. There are many others. My point is if they are not attempting to do these things they are not doing wing chun and might as well spend their time training something else. Second people will have a hard time doing any of these things in a real situation if they do not have the proper body structure because they will not be able to hold their balance when forceful contact is made. look at how the Oyama student pushes the wing chun guy around after contact is made. Hard to kick effectively when you are getting pushed around a ring.
Hence pass the structure tests first then learn how to apply.

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#389866 - 04/18/08 05:08 PM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: jude33]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Jude You may be reading more into my posts or looking for more than there is intended.

Look at how wing chun using the support leg compared to taekwondo or karate. Is is different. Wing chun kicks are done from and designed for short range. Wing chun uses the hip for power in a different method.

I suppose a video is a good way to look at technique except that is not what you should be looking at with wing chun people. You need to look at how the body hips and stance are used rather than the arms. This also holds true for Tai Chi, Hsing -I and other CMA. The true skill is in the body not the techniques. In fact the best people do very little other than the basic techniques most of the time.

When I refer to bone structure I am not talking about striking.
Yes I am leaving alot out.
WC relies on the use of the skeleton and tendons. That is what I am talking about. If your skeleton is not used correctly than you will not have proper structure and will have to rely on using gross muscle strength .If you can use your skeleton properly then you do not use muscle strength expressed through muscle tension. You can remain relaxed supple and still very strong. hence wing chun does not train like hung gar. Hung gar iron wire is very different than wing chun methods for example even though the goal is the same.

You ask about which kick to start with. I don't understand the question. All wing chun kicks use the same basic principles. Do you practice wing chun or just curious about it?

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#389867 - 04/21/08 11:05 AM Re: have you ever seen wing chun. [Re: donchisau]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
"Hung gar iron wire is very different than wing chun methods for example even though the goal is the same."

Pretty much my personal experience with most arts---different methods same goal more or less.


Edited by cxt (04/21/08 11:05 AM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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