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#388954 - 03/30/08 04:59 PM Double Punch application
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA


For anyone who practices the shorin ryu kata wankan, what do you believe the application for this technique is?

The same and similar moves are found in various Chinese forms as well, notably northern shaolin. Sometimes performed from a forward/bow stance, sometimes from a horse stance.

To see it in action, watch the videos

wankan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmLaJbfgKWc

qixingquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2awOCDRtrc&feature=related

xiaohongquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT9IgCqFjgA&mode=related&search=


Edited by shoshinkan (03/31/08 03:32 AM)

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#388955 - 03/30/08 07:17 PM Re: Douple Punch application [Re: WuXing]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Hi Jim,

I would see several applications for this type of double punch.

1. A single strike where the other hand moves out in the opposite direction to align the body into the strike itself.
I undestand such striking but rarely would consider it for my own usage. It is my suspision this is the reason this technique was incorporated into the kata.

2. This technique can be an evasive movement, a side slipping into at attack. In such use the continuing movement(s) are not in the kata, but would be a kakushite style answer. Such movements can be found in aiki tradition as well as indonesian siliat tradition.
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#388956 - 03/30/08 08:37 PM Re: Douple Punch application [Re: WuXing]
Seiken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 131
Loc: USA
Off the top of my head I was thinking a defense to a front bear hug with both arms trapped. The stance drops your knee into theirs, dropping your weight and giving you base so your not pushed back off your feet or lifted up, your arms forcefully shoot out to break the hug grip. Possibly even a headbutt while you move into your stance also.

Two person assault, someone grabs your arm or reaches towards you, their buddy shows intentions of attack. One arm acts as an interception or grip break and the other strikes the second assailant.

So many ways to interpret this move. Doesnt seem like a plausible first choice striking technique by itself add in real life scenarios it could be anything. Maybe even a weapon technique? If I may add I peraonlly believe the thought process leading to your own application is the most important thing.

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#388957 - 03/31/08 02:34 AM Re: Douple Punch application [Re: WuXing]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
It's actually against a five man assault. One from each side gets punched in a death blow point(2). The guy on the ground infront of him gets a knee to the temple rendering him paralized(3). The guy standing over that lower guy is lapel grabbing and gets a headbut to FH7 (forehead heart point), he's dead(4). The fifth guy is laying on his back behind him for an upward attack and gets a heel to the bridge of his nose which shoves into his brain and kills him(5).(everyone knows that) Simple!!
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#388958 - 03/31/08 03:34 AM Re: Douple Punch application [Re: BrianS]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
right on Brian !
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#388959 - 03/31/08 05:26 AM Re: Douple Punch application [Re: shoshinkan]
Shonuff Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 603
Loc: London, UK
Within the context of Wankan this technique follows a high x-block. I believe that here you are effecting some form of strike after either blocking or locking an arm, one hand pulls the off-balance opponent over the leg (shown on both sides to indicate use of whichever side is appropriate, or one hand pulls to clear the arm while the other strikes. This second idea could be expanded into a headlock if you are close enough.

I think the second and third vids simply shows a method of striking/power generation as Victor described. The arms seem to be thrust out rather than snapped using rotation through the elbow joint like in an uraken uchi as they are in Wankan.
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#388960 - 03/31/08 09:08 AM Re: Double Punch application [Re: WuXing]
GriffyGriff Offline
Good Egg,
Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 414
Loc: Earth
The posture is the pre-lim to the "Beer Driven Hang-Gliding Jump" technique. Whereby the drinker is granted the power to run around the streets flapping like a bird.

It is also used as the "Opening of Double Doors" technique.
This is usually performed on leaving a cinema after watching a good Martial Arts film.
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#388961 - 04/05/08 01:34 PM Re: Double Punch application [Re: GriffyGriff]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I don't practice this kata, however my initial thoughts on application would go along these lines -

Taking the preceeding step in and high cross block as a 'grab' to lapels of clothing (aiming to throw or secure), the attacker then grabs your wrists to try and stop you securing hold (very natural reaction),

throw away his arms and turn (tai sabaki to get to the outside of his inside) into the knife hand strike to the throat, whilst trapping his arm from underneath with the hikite of the knife hand (ala Matsubayashi whip up of back hand).
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www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#388962 - 04/05/08 02:29 PM Re: Double Punch application [Re: WuXing]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Think finishing a standing collar choke. Shonuff is on the right track when he mentions you must consider the techniques before and after. In addition, it is the intermediate positions which are for fighting and not necessarily the end result. Think of the end result as demonstration of follow through. With this thinking it can be hammer fist strikes to the sides of the head or reaching around the back of the head, grabbing the chin and throwing. Both sides practices together so either hand can perform the technique equally well. If you analyze the preceding technique you have a double head block with hands cross, not an X block. Again, look at intermediate techniques rather than a finished two crossing head blocks. The double head block is both attacking the attacker, jamming his attack, and striking in application. From this position if you opponent is sufficiently stunned there are manny variations on throwing striking techniques this particular technique can finish or set up.
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#388963 - 05/21/08 08:04 PM Re: Double Punch application [Re: WuXing]
MikoReklaw Offline
Member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Sorry for the late reply... just saw this thread.

Wankan... such a fun kata.

I see this, combined with the X block before it, as a tuite technique. The X block catches an arm, and the opening of the arms: one hand [in this shot, like his right] hold the hand while the other [his left], goes for the side of the neck, locking him out, causing him a great deal of pain, if used as a bracheal plexus stun [if done hard enough, will knock the guy out]... and possibly even throwing him to the ground.



Nice picture, BTW!
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