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22738 Members
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#387555 - 03/30/08 01:44 PM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: jude33]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
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It's a rare karateka that uses a makiwara nowadays and even rarer to find one that uses one properly. I used one for over 25 years on a daily basis and didn't have a callous in sight.
Those that use one properly are in fact training in tai chi principles. A good makiwara is an excellent piece of equipment because it's rooted at the bottom will 'spring' the energy back into the practitioner and find the weak point in his posture, for example if the shoulder is not properly aligned it will 'jump' as the returning force hits it. A good posture will mean the the returning force will travel back to the ground and return again.
In tai chi we use dynamic pushing to condition the same alignments.
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#387556 - 03/30/08 02:44 PM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: Bossman]
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Veteran
Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
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Quote:
It's a rare karateka that uses a makiwara nowadays and even rarer to find one that uses one properly. I used one for over 25 years on a daily basis and didn't have a callous in sight.
Those that use one properly are in fact training in tai chi principles. A good makiwara is an excellent piece of equipment because it's rooted at the bottom will 'spring' the energy back into the practitioner and find the weak point in his posture, for example if the shoulder is not properly aligned it will 'jump' as the returning force hits it. A good posture will mean the the returning force will travel back to the ground and return again.
In tai chi we use dynamic pushing to condition the same alignments.
I will have to re- read through that one again. I use a makiwari on my hand development.
Jude
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#387557 - 03/30/08 04:18 PM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: jude33]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
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Your hands are already fully developed, the last thing you want to do is to damage them. You will only do that if your strikes 'slip' or you hit too hard to begin with. With a good makiwara it will have a good 'spring' to it. When you hit it there will be an immediate return of energy (Newtons Laws action/reaction) back to you, any weakness in your alignment will be discovered in the feedback, if your posture and energy flow is good the energy will earth through your feet and be sent back to the makiwara. This will develop a powerful 'dig' to your strikes.
You can also leave the energy in the makiwara by removing your hand before the energy can return. This skill mans that the opponent will not be 'pushed' backwards and you will make his spine 'whip' and he will fall forwards as a result of the strike.
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#387558 - 03/31/08 05:04 AM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: Bossman]
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Member
Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
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Bossman,
Excellent-I hit my makiwara with closed fist, palm and sometimes single knuckle fist a few times a week, have done for a couple of decades or more. Only the single knuckle fist tends to feel a bit sensitive afterwards but maybe because I do not use it on the makiwara so often. What you describe as good Tai Chi principles may be well be that but sound pretty much common to all striking arts...
B.
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#387559 - 03/31/08 06:27 AM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: Barad]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
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Quote:
Bossman,
Excellent-I hit my makiwara with closed fist, palm and sometimes single knuckle fist a few times a week, have done for a couple of decades or more. Only the single knuckle fist tends to feel a bit sensitive afterwards but maybe because I do not use it on the makiwara so often. What you describe as good Tai Chi principles may be well be that but sound pretty much common to all striking arts...
B.
Exactly - a hit is a hit.
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#387560 - 03/31/08 06:54 AM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: Bossman]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
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How do the goju practitioners here translate sink, swallow, float and spit into their kakie and makiwara training?
Also how do you see the 5 animals in Tensho or the crane snake and tiger in your movements?
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#387561 - 03/31/08 01:30 PM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: Bossman]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
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Quote:
How do the goju practitioners here translate sink, swallow, float and spit into their kakie and makiwara training?
Also how do you see the 5 animals in Tensho or the crane snake and tiger in your movements?
--------------------------------- Breathing and striking from the hara/tan tien is a good part of what we do, controlling and building this energy is done purposeful throughout Iron shirt training and carried on through Tensho training. Commanding, Controlling, Storing and Expelling this energy is one of our prime purpose or seen as advance training but is started at 7th kyu level the start of Sanchin in our dojo.
Both for destructive purpose and strengthening, protecting internal organs and healing. Breathing is life and death is the creed.
There are some 5 animal aspects but in my training the Snake, Crane and Dragon are the element of internal energy command. As are the Snake and Crane is to Tai-Chi or Pakua.
Makiwari training can be away of feeling the hard and soft control of your strikes and body energy transfer. Some say almost a spiritual thing I've have got that deep.
Edited by Neko456 (03/31/08 01:36 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson
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#387562 - 03/31/08 02:17 PM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: Neko456]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
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So what do you do for sink, swallow float and spit? How would you teach it?
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#387563 - 03/31/08 04:06 PM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: Bossman]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
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First in practice we don’t teach them as Sink, Float, Swallow, and Spit. We teach them as basic principles that are built upon later. Then these exact terms are used and can be researched or discussed as they apply to what we do.
Sink is taught as push off or adjoined to the ground or earth by bend your knees, bracing yourself between the ground and your opponent, or stable stance through properly alignment of your body as if rooted. So that the bottom is braced and the top potion is relaxed and once contact is made for a second or as long as you are in contact with the opponents you send your energy into his body or internal organ using measured compression. It is a form of rooting, whipping energy and placement as seen Hsing-I or Tai-chi. The immoveable stance practice in Sanchin & other stance work are basic example of this principle.
Swallow is taught as a principle of absorbing an attack or person either by limb destruction or slight deflection and counter or by weaving through his attack so that he misses and he runs into your counter or the wall. This can be exhibit in some of the, kakie training, soft deflection, body bumps, dumps as in kata gurma/firemen carry, throws or body slams done or the Iron body or palm strikes limb destruction.
Spit is taught as of explosion either through long movements or short compression this is done either in longer thrusting, pushes and pulls or short strikes with snapping/whipping movement, this can be exhibit in some of the body bumps, dumps as in say kata gurma/fireman carry body slams done or in the sliding stance movement and Iron palm strikes delivered.
Float is taught as a principle to unbalance in defense or offense this is taught in our basic stance work, head, neck manipulation and corner of the body control blending with his movement or bumping, tilting or tipping or lifting to gain this position.
It is said that the ending mawashi ukes from Sanchin embodies these four principles.
Edited by Neko456 (03/31/08 04:15 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson
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#387564 - 04/01/08 03:38 AM
Re: By Jove I think they've got it!
[Re: Neko456]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
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Thanks for that Neko, I'll give you my take on it for every movement from a tai chi perspective.
Sink - is the ability to put your bodyweight into the tendons and muscles as opposed to the joints, this means you will be rooted, won't be inert and are able to be aware of and use your bodyweight more dynamically.
Swallow - to find your feet internally ('swallow' is an excellent term for this) and send your energy there, when you do it will naturally rise and this will initiate any movement or part of a movement that you do.
Float - is the energy rising, giving you that 'floating', easy sensation as you move even though you are rooted.
Spit - to send the energy out to the opponent, this can be done anywhere off the double helix spiral running through the body in any direction at any time. As the above 3 are constantly feeding that spiral.
Sanchin is the perfect way to practice this, Tensho adds the 'floating' waist and the 'asking hand' converting touch to one of the 5 animal hands and Naihanchi builds another layer to 'spit' by categorising the different methods of power sourcing and transfer from the body.
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