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#387442 - 03/20/08 03:50 AM Posse Comitatus
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
There was a thread in another section of the forum which unfortunately degenerated into bickering. The discussion of the military being used to patrol our borders against "undocumented immigration" not being legal due to the Posse Comitatus Act was brought up. It was also brought up that undocumented immigration is not a criminal law but a civil crime. Both subsequently are not true.

Two things about Posse Comitatus, one is that it only applies to the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines (including their reserve components) but it does not apply to the National Guard and the Coast Gaurd. The National Guard when operating in a state status under Title 32 of the US Code exempts them from Posse Comitatus. The Coast Guard doesn't fall under the DOD, initially they were under the Department of Transportation and now fall under the Department of Homeland Security.

The second issue is the "erosion" of the Posse Comitatus Act. Congress approved the use of the Navy and Air Force for anti-drug law enforcement, tariff enforcement and immigration control with 10 U.S.C. sections 371-381. These changes to Posse Comitatus began in the 1980s with President Reagan.

As for "undocumented immigration" being a civil crime? Not true, Title 8 section 1325 of the U. S. Code (Improper Entry by Alien) makes entering the United States by a non U.S. citizen by any means other than through designated immigration points, eludes examination and/or inspection by immigration officers or tries to enter the U.S. using false information or omitting information has committed a federal crime. They can receive criminal fines and imprisonment of up to six months and repeat offenders can be imprisoned for up to two years. Civil fines may also be imposed.

Sorry i just have issues with people spouting "fact" without knowing what the facts are.
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#387443 - 03/20/08 07:38 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Thanks for the detail, Lane.
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#387444 - 03/20/08 09:12 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: MattJ]
laf7773 Offline
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Your tax dollars at work, can't say i didn't learn anything in the Navy.

One mistake...the Coast Guard originally was under the Department of Treasury prior to the Department of Transportation and finally the Department of Homeland Security.
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#387445 - 03/20/08 11:21 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
And just to be a stickler on fine details, the CG does have offices at the Pentagon, Does have a Chief of Staff who sits with the Joint Chiefs, do conduct communications and training with other military branches (Primarily those that fall under the Dep. of the Navy) and your service in the CG does qualify as military service. There is in fact some Coast Guardsmen in Iraq right now (these assets are considered to have been transferred to the DN). The only reason they don't fall fully under DoD is because their primary mission is coastal and waterway defense, and search and rescue at sea.

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#387446 - 03/20/08 11:29 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
laf7773 Offline
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Well during times of war the Coast Guard as a whole falls under the DON. I remember a few years ago the Coast Guard was offering sailors in my previous job $30K to transfer to the Coast Guard when there term in the Navy was up. I almost took them up on it but i wasn't tall enough... they require you be tall enough to walk back to shore if your boat sinks.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#387447 - 03/21/08 02:35 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
fileboy2002 Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Being in the US without proper documentation is a civil offense, not a criminal one. About 50% of immigrants now living in the US illegally entered via legal channels and overstayed their visas. This is a civil offense, not a crime.

Even in the case of illegal entry, the usual punishment--deportation--is also a civil, rather than a criminal, proceeding.

So yes, in theory, illegal border crossing can be a criminal offense. However, this only occurs in an particular (and atypical) set of circumstances.

As much as restrictionists would like to have illegal border crossers put in the same category as rapists, murderers, and child molesters (as the Sensenbrenner bill would have done), it ain't the case today.

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#387448 - 03/21/08 09:29 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Regardless of what "punishment" is given entering this country through any means other than designated immigration check points is a FEDERAL OFFENSE. Just because they don't receive the maximum punishment for illegal entry doesn't mean it's not a criminal offense.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=8&sec=1325

I'm pretty sure i stated specifically that those attempting ENTRY into the U.S. were committing a federal crime, not those who have outstayed their legal amount of time. So your arguing with a wall as that wasn't my point. But just for giggles, this "50%" you’re talking about, were did you get that percentage? Is it just pulled from your imagination, something you heard or do you have a legitimate, reliable source where you got this information? If it's true and you can prove it...outstanding. If you’re just spouting your opinion then do so as an opinion and not disguised as a fact.

Before you start throwing the race card around i'm all for over looking illegal entry and those who over stayed their legal time to be here and make them legal citizens as long as they are going to contribute like everyone else.

By the way, YOU never said anything about immigrants who "over stayed" their legal time here. You said, and i quote...
Quote:

Actually, illegal immigrants are NOT criminals. As former Republican Rudolph Guiliani recently pointed out, unauthorized border corssing is a civil offense, not a criminal one.




Its one thing to be passionate about your beliefs but you can't believe everything you hear just because it supports your beliefs.

By the way the U.S. does have a national/official language and it is English.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SP4064:
Basically English is the only language the U.S. or it's entities are required to use.

Quote:

`The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the national language of the United States of America. Unless otherwise authorized or provided by law, no person has a right, entitlement, or claim to have the Government of the United States or any of its officials or representatives act, communicate, perform or provide services, or provide materials in any language other than English. If exceptions are made, that does not create a legal entitlement to additional services in that language or any language other than English. If any forms are issued by the Federal Government in a language other than English (or such forms are completed in a language other than English), the English language version of the form is the sole authority for all legal purposes.'.



http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SP4064

and yes it is still required that immigrants seeking naturalization have a working understanding of English.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#387449 - 03/21/08 10:02 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Accussing people of "throwing around the race card"--especially when I have not mentioned race--is exactly why threads degenerate into bickering, laf7773. Let's be civil, shall we?

I conceded that illegal border crossing CAN be treated as a criminal offense in some circumstances. If you want to count that as a "gotcha" against me, please do. But the fact remains it is rarely treated as such.

But I am sorry, the US does NOT have an official language. The bill you cited affirmed the status of English as the language of the federal government--something that was true already. It did not make English the official language of the US.

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#387450 - 03/21/08 10:44 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
fileboy2002 Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Whoops, forget something. Here is a source about the percentage of undocumented immigrants who overstay visas:
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14221609

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#387451 - 03/23/08 03:22 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
I didn't "accuse" you of pulling the race card; i was just stating my position before you did. You know before you threw out another comment like this one...
Quote:

And I am sick and tired of how every time anyone dares to mention race or racism they are shot down for "playing the race card."

Look at this way: all over the US, Russians speak Russian, Greeks speal Greek, Poles speak Polish AND NOBODY CARES. Why not? Because Russians, Greeks, and Poles are all white people. And white people are not afraid of other white people. There is no "English Only" movement; it is really a "No Spanish" movement.




Here is the point you don't seem to get. It's not that illegal border crossing "can" be a criminal offense it IS a criminal offense. The punishment handed down doesn't change the legal status of a crime. The fact is you made an untrue statement, was called on it and are now back peddling.

As for the "about 50%" bit, i actually agree to some extent although it's hard to gauge since none of the sources calculating this data can agree. The "official" number in January 2000 was 2.3 million out of 7 million or about 1/3 of the total while three other sources put the percentages at 27%, 31% and 57%. This of course was ALL illegal immigrants not just Hispanics.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0482.pdf

I hate to be the one to tell you this but that is what a national language is. The language to be used in official and legal matters within the U.S. is English and the government NOW has no obligation to provide documentation in any other language. Just because the national language is English doesn't mean people can't speak their native language, but in order to be a naturalized citizen of the U.S. a working knowledge of the English language is mandatory. Additionally it wasn't "true already", it wasn't voted on and approved until 2006.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#387452 - 03/23/08 03:38 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Just in case there is some confusion as to what an "official language" is...
Quote:

An official language is a language that is given a special legal status in a particular country, state, or other territory. Typically a nation's official language will be the one used in that nation's courts, parliament and administration




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language#cite_note-0

English was already the official language in 30 states and was made the official language of the United States in May of 2006.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#387453 - 03/26/08 04:59 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Here is a quote from the wiki article you cited:

"The US has no official language"

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#387454 - 03/27/08 12:43 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
Happy Birthday BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I find it very rude to have hispanics speaking spanish in front of others when they know english. Makes me feel like they are talking about me. I know about %20 of the spanish language, so I can hold a conversation somewhat.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#387455 - 03/27/08 01:20 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
So you're saying wikipedia is more of a credible source than a government site? The fact is wikipedia hasn't been updated to reflect congresses passing of English as the official language. I only referenced the site for the basic definition not for its current relevance. Good try though.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#387456 - 03/27/08 03:16 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: BrianS]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Look, all over the country Russians speak Russian, Greeks speak Greek, Poles speak Polish, and NOBODY CARES. But everybody goes ballistuic when Latinos speak Spanish.

Sorry, but I am sick of monolingual, English-speaking white Christians acting like they own the whole @#$% culture. It's like they think the rest of us are not "real" Americans. I speak three languages and will speak any one of them any time I please, and if anyone does not like that it is their @#$% problem.

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#387457 - 03/27/08 03:21 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
laf7773,

YOU posted the wiki article. Obviously you did not read it very carefully!

I already expalined this before, but I will try one more time. The government document you cited earlier reaffirmed the official status of English WITHIN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. That was already true anyway. It did not make English the official language of the US.

Here's an idea: instead of arguing with me, call up the foreign language office at your local college or university and ask them if English is the official language of the US.

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#387458 - 03/27/08 06:03 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Yes i did site wikipedia and yes i did read if truly. Like i said it hasn't been updated to reflect the May 2006 decision by Congress making English the National/official language. What you don't seem to understand or are refusing to acknowledge is that the official language of a country doesn't mean everyone in the country has to speak it. It only means that it is the language used in official government business and legal systems. If YOU had read the article on wikipedia you would understand that. Additionally the amendment i sited did not "reaffirm" anything; there has been a fight since at least the '70s to get that passed.

The issue here is you don't understand what the term "official language" means. There isn't a country in the world that i know of which has and "official language" by your terms. You aren't going to find a country where you MUST speak the local language or else. That will never be the case in the U.S. either. A countries official language is nothing more than the language the government and courts are required to provide documentation in and conduct business in. This doesn't even mean the U.S. government can't provide documentation in another language, only that it doesn't HAVE to. There are however bills that some are trying to get passed that will change the governments requirement to provide bilingual voting, it hasn’t been passed.

I'm going to try to make this as clear for you as i can.

Quote:

Typically a nation's official language will be the one used in that nation's courts, parliament and administration.




This was made legal for English in the U.S. in May of 2006.

Quote:

Originally posted by fileboy2002: The government document you cited earlier reaffirmed the official status of English WITHIN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.




So if you’re going to “reaffirm” what I have said how is it you don’t get it?

I’ll recap for you. The official and national language for the U.S. IS English, this IS a new thing and no it doesn’t mean everyone in the country has to speak it. All it means is our courts and government business/documents have to be in English, but doesn’t restrict them to only the use of English.

By the way, the only university even close to me is a technical university…in GREECE. Pay attention, I’m not state side.

I have no personal issues with anyone speaking any languages as long as in the work place everyone understands the language being spoken. Meaning if your work place is mostly English then work needs to be conducted in English, at least in the work space. Any public or common areas are fair game.
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#387459 - 03/27/08 06:50 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Quote:

I have no personal issues with anyone speaking any languages as long as in the work place everyone understands the language being spoken. Meaning if your work place is mostly English then work needs to be conducted in English, at least in the work space. Any public or common areas are fair game.





Definitely agree.

File..boy, whatever you want to be called. Happy ya speak three languages, but what ticks me off is that in a customer oriented field the person can't even communicate. Try ordering from Burger King or McDonalds on Northern VA. It all about communication, and if you want to be here, ya should be able to communicate and that is in English. When i was stationed in Korea I learned Korean. I was in their country, so I communicated in their language. When I was in Panama, it was Spanish and in Germany it was German, I think you get the point.

Don't come in here running at the mouth about white people trying to make it a whole perfect, English speaking race. I think if you are here, you need to speak the language. What you do in your home your business, what you do with another person speaking the same language your business too. If you are going to be a citizen here, speak the language. I don't think that is asking too much...
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#387460 - 03/27/08 11:06 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: JasonM]
fileboy2002 Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
JasonM, what you bring up is a different issue.

If a person needs to communicate in a job setting and is unable to do so, that person is arguably not qualified for the job.

However, I resent it when monolingual people require me to speak "their" language when I am not even talking to them. I took my my 82 year-old Lithuanian grandmother to the grocery store the other day and asked her, in Lithuanian, if she wanted me to pick up some cabbage. Some old fart near us had the gall to frown at me and remind me I was in America and should speak English. Had he been my own age, I would have knocked his @#$% teeth out.

And please don't go ballistic just because I mentioned race (I am a white person, incidently). Yes, I know we are all supposed to pretend race is irrelevant in America, but I just cannot lie to myself that way.

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#387461 - 03/27/08 11:07 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
You need a refresher is US law. Talk to me again when you get one.

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#387462 - 03/27/08 01:04 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
How is that? Feel free to back your position with some sort of actual documentation. Stamping your feet and screaming "it's not true" over and over doesn't make you right. If i'm wrong then prove me wrong, if not then just accept that you were misinformed and move on.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#387463 - 03/27/08 07:14 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
Happy Birthday BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Look, all over the country Russians speak Russian, Greeks speak Greek, Poles speak Polish, and NOBODY CARES. But everybody goes ballistuic when Latinos speak Spanish.

Sorry, but I am sick of monolingual, English-speaking white Christians acting like they own the whole @#$% culture. It's like they think the rest of us are not "real" Americans. I speak three languages and will speak any one of them any time I please, and if anyone does not like that it is their @#$% problem.




Wow, touched a nerve there did I?

Listen, you don't know jack sh1t about me so quit talking like you do and quit looping everyone into the same category.

I don't care what language people CAN speak. This is an English speaking country. The language spoken is not the issue, I don't care what it is, spanish or not, it's still rude. That doesn't make me prejudice in the least. If you think it does the you are the one with the problem.

Quote:

and if anyone does not like that it is their @#$% problem.




That's a good attitude. Sounds like a 12yr old. "I have to fart! And if my farting offends you then that's your F"ING problem, deal with it! Don't be telli9ng me it's rude to fart!!! I'll fart if I feel like it no matter where I am!!! Stupid white people!!!"
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#387464 - 03/27/08 07:16 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
Happy Birthday BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I have no personal issues with anyone speaking any languages as long as in the work place everyone understands the language being spoken. Meaning if your work place is mostly English then work needs to be conducted in English, at least in the work space. Any public or common areas are fair game.






Thankyou!!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#387465 - 03/27/08 11:49 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
So you stereotype all white monolingual christians cuz of an old fart? An old fart that probably was around during Slavery and segregation and is still stuck in that mind set?
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#387466 - 03/28/08 08:25 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: JasonM]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

So you stereotype all white monolingual christians cuz of an old fart?




I am not defending the comment as it falls beyond the scope of civil discourse, but I do understand what is driving emotion.

Christians, as a politcal movement have been pushing the Agenda that this is a 'Christian Country", that there is no separation of Church and state, God's law trumps man's law, this in an English speaking Nation and other similar political messages.

This has caused a build up of resentment toward the 'White Christian" leaders and leads to comments like fileboys.

Fileboy, I think it's important to fight the idea, not the person. You have a valid argument here, you only undermine it with stero typing and personal attacks.
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#387467 - 03/28/08 08:41 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: BrianS]
Kimo2007 Offline
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Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Don't be telli9ng me it's rude to fart!!! I'll fart if I feel like it no matter where I am!!! Stupid white people!!!"





I think comparing speaking another language to farting is a childish parallel to make.

You or anyone else has no right to tell people what language to communicate in with the exception of legal dealings.

If McDonalds hires only Polish speaking people and you walk in and can't order a meal you have no right to insist otherwise. They are a private entity, and while it might be bad business for them to operate that way, they are "free" to do so.

You also don't have a right not to be offended, if the sound of polish being spoken bewtween 2 people on the street offends you, too bad, they are "free" to communicate in whatever lauguage they want too.

You do have a right to insist people speak to you in English, or you can take your business elsewhere or ignore them etc.

I think getting angry at people for not knowing English is silly, they hurt themselves far more then they hurt you. Most people I know would love to be fluent in English, it would make their world so much easier. But it's a hard language to learn, and not everyone has the apptitude so it often falls to the next generation.

BTW none of this has to do with illegal immigration, it has to do with other frustrations being misplaced and injected into the immigration issue.
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#387468 - 03/28/08 09:40 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

Look, all over the country Russians speak Russian, Greeks speak Greek, Poles speak Polish, and NOBODY CARES. But everybody goes ballistuic when Latinos speak Spanish.





Quote:

However, I resent it when monolingual people require me to speak "their" language when I am not even talking to them. I took my my 82 year-old Lithuanian grandmother to the grocery store the other day and asked her, in Lithuanian, if she wanted me to pick up some cabbage. Some old fart near us had the gall to frown at me and remind me I was in America and should speak English. Had he been my own age, I would have knocked his @#$% teeth out.




So which is it? Is it an anti-Spanish issue as you have suggested or is it an anti non-English issue? You seem to contradict yourself and i'm still waiting for some sort of proof to back your ideas. Simply saying i need a "refresher" in U.S. law means nothing. The simple fact is you spouted off comments that you thought were true when you really didn't fully understand what you were saying. Just because you heard something or read it in the local news paper doesn't make it law. What you thought an official language was and what it is are two different things. Having English as an official language will not force people to speak English. The sooner you can wrap your head around that the sooner you will understand what i'm trying to explain to you.

I am all for people speaking their native language or any language for that matter as long as it doesn't inhibit work due to communication break downs. I've been in Greece a year and have made every effort to learn as much of the language as i can because i live on the economy and even though most of the locals speak some English i think it's disrespectful for me to insist that they use my language to conduct business. I feel if people want to move to another country that uses a different language they should learn that language and use it when dealing with the locals and not demand we conform to them.

Do you want to know why a lot of people make such a big deal about the Spanish speaking community vise the Polish or Russians? How many companies in the U.S. do you see that hire specifically Polish speaking bilinguals? It's a matter of close minded people being upset that companies are "catering" to the Spanish speaking community more than any other instead of insisting they speak the "local" language (English). This tends to create an outcry of "why are we catering to them and not everyone else?" My personal feeling is if you are here visiting, speak what ever you want. If you are living here for any length of time learn at least enough of the language to get by.
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#387469 - 03/28/08 12:01 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

It's a matter of close minded people being upset that companies are "catering" to the Spanish speaking community more than any other instead of insisting they speak the "local" language (English).




Business acts in it's own best interest, and seeing a large uptapped market of spanish speaking people they chose to cater to those customers. Thats free market, thats freedom of choice. Thats America. Forcing the companies or the the people do communicate in English, would be, IMO very UN American.

Not arguing with you Lane, just making an observation and comment about your quote.
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#387470 - 03/28/08 11:02 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: Kimo2007]
Happy Birthday BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Chemo,

I'm talking about my workplace.

It's rude to move somewhere and refuse to speak the language, plain and simple.

BTW, I have the right to be offended if I feel like it your high and mightyness.

Speaking a FOREIGN language in an ENGLISH speaking country is rude, I don't care who you are.
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#387471 - 03/29/08 12:18 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: BrianS]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

BTW, I have the right to be offended if I feel like it your high and mightyness.





Mighty, yes, high, not anymore make me paranoid. That aside, there is no amendment protecting your right to not be annoyed.

Quote:

Speaking a FOREIGN language in an ENGLISH speaking country is rude, I don't care who you are.




Only if they are talking to you.

Quote:

Chemo,





Does your keybpard have a K and an I? Talk about rude?
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#387472 - 03/31/08 01:47 AM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: Kimo2007]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

Business acts in it's own best interest, and seeing a large uptapped market of spanish speaking people they chose to cater to those customers. Thats free market, thats freedom of choice. Thats America. Forcing the companies or the the people do communicate in English, would be, IMO very UN American.




My point was more so that regardless of why companies choose to cater to the Spanish speaking community more than others it's the fact that it is happening. There are many who feel this country caters too much to the Spanish speaking community and they are crying out. They feel it's not right that a company only hire bilingual Spanish/English speaking people for certain positions that it takes jobs away from those who only speak English but could otherwise do the job. This is the point i've been trying to make to fileboy...Congress declaring English the National or Official language of the U.S. will not force these companies or any other agency, including our court systems and government offices, to go strictly English. It simply makes English the only required language, they are still able to provide documentation and conduct business in any other additional language(s) they choose. At the same time it can be used to prevent law suits against companies who choose to conduct business in English only. Unfortunately there are some people who are too close minded to see things any way but their own.

I personally see Spanish as a predominate language in this country second only to English due to its overwhelming numbers. As do many others, the difference being they see it as a bad thing. I think it's good business for a company to offer bilingual services and i encourage it, i would love to see businesses in other areas with a high volume of say Polish speaking people adopt the same practices. I think its best used in high tourist/immigration areas but can be an asset to any company which deals with a high volume of non-English speaking customers. At the same time I feel if you plan to live in a country that speaks a language other than your native tongue you should make every attempt to learn enough of that language to conduct daily business.
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#387473 - 04/05/08 04:15 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: laf7773]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Yes, Lane, but what about the states, such as CA that require all LE agencies and Courts to provide a translator for someone who doesn't speak a reasonable amount of English. To tie this in with illegal immigration, how does someone who forgot their passport/ID that day tell someone they are here legally and can prove it, if someone doesn't speak their language. Or a tourist, how do you tell someone they broke a law, and have to rectify the situation, if you can't communicate with them. I understand the POV regarding businesses, but there are some jobs, mostly civil service, that require so many slots to be filled by someone who is bilingual.

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#387474 - 04/06/08 01:16 PM Re: Posse Comitatus [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Like i said Bushi, the Federal govt. doesn't require it but local agencies have the option. They can make it a requirement if there is a need for it. Having an official or national language doesn't force anyone or any agency to only use English. It only requires the use of English but doesn't take away the ability to make bilingual staffing a requirement. Federal and state agencies can still make it a requirement for a certain number of employees to be bilingual if it's a need of the community.
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