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#387096 - 03/18/08 12:45 PM Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better???
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? While enjoying a Youtube video of I believe one of the Famous modren Masters and fighter of a form of Wing Chun a Chinese Translator stated that the Master said that " Boxing was no good, WC is better".

Now I know that in translating alot can be missed and in a seminar you don't have time to give your complete view just your message. But I really think there is another way to say that Boxing is a sport, which is what I believe they meant.

WC in my opinion gives you more weapons to handle self defense situations. WC's supposited strength over some of the other complicated Kung-fu system is that its approach is simple and they spar more.

I believe from the waist up boxing maybe the shorter and simplier route over WC, that it deveolps better power and reaction to a hand attack in a shorter time. Because boxing stresses WC's advantages over the other Kuens life long systems. They spar more and sharpen the few weapons they have.

What is your opinion about the statement made?

What is your on hands or objective view of VT/WC vs. Western boxing as a hand delivery & defensive method?

Boxing is a sport no way can I say its no good.


Edited by Neko456 (03/18/08 12:47 PM)
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#387097 - 03/18/08 01:26 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: Neko456]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Quote:

Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better???





I can't stand statements like this. Whenever I hear the whole 'boxing doesn't work for self defense' diatribe, I think of incidents like this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=6iDlzL7zrNU

WC and boxing both have more characteristics that are similar than most of these 'sifus' want to admit, the most common one being that they train the holy hell out of the punch (or at least should). Even though the mechanics and theories are different, the end result is the same - a good, solid, snappy, powerful punch that doesn't require cocking back or loading up for.
Also, sport boxers have conditioning that can't be beat by any martial arts hobbyist - there is no argument there. The ability to 'exchange blows' or simply take several shots without getting taken out of the fight is nothing to scoff at. I once asked a teacher from a different lineage what to do if your defenses are penetrated and you get hit hard. His answer was pretty much 'well, if your kung fu is good you won't get hit, but if you're worried about it perhaps learn some iron shirt technique.
Ok, so either way you're looking at 15-20 years of slow, fairly esoteric training there... or I could just keep myself in shape and actually GET HIT once in a while...
Hmm...
Anyway, I learned how to box way before taking up WC and I still love to train boxing as much as I can. My WC is in my boxing, and my boxing in my WC etc. and that's just how it is. Just different parts of the whole. It irks me that so many CMA practitioners knock boxing, but have never even tried it.
Sorry, that was kinda long

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#387098 - 03/19/08 10:40 AM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: ShikataGaNai]
janxspirit Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 132
Quote:

Quote:

Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better???





I can't stand statements like this. Whenever I hear the whole 'boxing doesn't work for self defense' diatribe, I think of incidents like this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=6iDlzL7zrNU

WC and boxing both have more characteristics that are similar than most of these 'sifus' want to admit, the most common one being that they train the holy hell out of the punch (or at least should). Even though the mechanics and theories are different, the end result is the same - a good, solid, snappy, powerful punch that doesn't require cocking back or loading up for.
Also, sport boxers have conditioning that can't be beat by any martial arts hobbyist - there is no argument there. The ability to 'exchange blows' or simply take several shots without getting taken out of the fight is nothing to scoff at. I once asked a teacher from a different lineage what to do if your defenses are penetrated and you get hit hard. His answer was pretty much 'well, if your kung fu is good you won't get hit, but if you're worried about it perhaps learn some iron shirt technique.
Ok, so either way you're looking at 15-20 years of slow, fairly esoteric training there... or I could just keep myself in shape and actually GET HIT once in a while...
Hmm...
Anyway, I learned how to box way before taking up WC and I still love to train boxing as much as I can. My WC is in my boxing, and my boxing in my WC etc. and that's just how it is. Just different parts of the whole. It irks me that so many CMA practitioners knock boxing, but have never even tried it.
Sorry, that was kinda long




Wing Chun and boxing are NOT that similar.

Wing Chun just doesn't seem very useful in application against determined opponents..as far as I can tell?
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#387099 - 03/19/08 11:28 AM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: janxspirit]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Wing Chun and boxing are NOT that similar.




They're not the same, but they are similar.

Quote:

Wing Chun just doesn't seem very useful in application against determined opponents..as far as I can tell?




Depends on how they train. I use ChiSao elements (as well as AKK checking and leveraging) in my sparring all the time ie; bong sau, sticking, etc. But you have to train it against real resistance.
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#387100 - 03/19/08 01:46 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: MattJ]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Matt hit it exactly right. And to further clarify my point about WC and boxing being similar - in my experience they are both very simple fighting systems once you understand the principles, and how effective they are depends entirely on the amount of training and practice a fighter puts in.

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#387101 - 03/19/08 03:55 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: ShikataGaNai]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Personally I would put my money on boxer 9 out of 10 times, simply because I believe that boxing training is far and away better than most wing chun training that I have ever seen.

If you apply the tools of wing chun in boxing style training, then I believe you might see more functional results. I also believe that if you did that, much of the wing chun syllabus would get dropped.

Tan sau? Not for me thank you!


Just my opinion.


-John

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#387102 - 03/19/08 05:10 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: janxspirit]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
janxspirit

"application" is pretty much personally dependent.

A hammer is a hammer....but some people can barely build a decent birdhouse while others are capable of building pretty much anything and some people can build remarkable things....same hammer.....its whom is using it that counts.

Martial arts are the same....IMO, more or less.


Edited by cxt (03/19/08 05:11 PM)
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#387103 - 03/20/08 02:34 AM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: cxt]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I believe WC gives you more overall weapons to work with and prepare you for real world scenarios. It usually has short efficent strikes and stress multiple strikes. It also uses alot of lower level tripping and joint damaging techniques. It (like most martial arts) can't be practiced full out because of the damage that is possible to the practitioner.

Boxing is an excellent method to counter full out danagerous hand attacks, bc thats what they train against normally. Probably imo superior to the short punches in WC just for example comparing WC's chain puncing with a Boxers straight combination.

Here lies WC's weakness (and most MAs) in regrad to Boxing, Boxing at a certain can be practiced full out because you stay within its rules. This is its major strength.

The Classic Boxing weakness is that he/she is trapped within its rules unaware of low leg/hands attacks, elbows, knees, throws, sweeps, locks, chokes and escapes from ground plummenting. Opened up to the possibilities makes the Boxer even more effective. Taking either outside its boundaries could be dangerous.

WC does have the most danagerous possibilities, bc they at least train it.
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#387104 - 03/20/08 12:08 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: Neko456]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Neko

I don't disagree...I once watched and interview with Ali where he publically stated that karate was more dangerous than boxing because a karate man could kick--which gave him 2 more limbs to fight with 2 to 4 so to speak (my paraphrase of course)

But that is just theory--"possiblites" as you so accurately put it.

Its the person that makes those possiblites into reality...IMO.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#387105 - 03/20/08 04:19 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: cxt]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I will say this for wing chun - ever since I developed a 'reasonable' amount of proficiency in it, I found that I could pick up techniques from other arts more quickly. We've had students come in from TKD and boxing experienced backgrounds and they always seem to really struggle with the WC concepts, yet I feel like when I cross train I can slip easily into other 'modes'. This is of course just my own experience.
I think this is the relationship with other arts that made WC the original JKD foundation.

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