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#387126 - 03/24/08 09:04 AM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: Prizewriter]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Imagine if the first time a person such as that got hit properly was in a SD situation, and not in a gym. What happens if they mentally shut down in a dangerous situation like that?





Well I think you expanded the definition of fitness to include "mental fitness" when the discussion was really about physical fitness.

I would say what you describe falls into the area of the other aspects of SD that come into play.
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#387127 - 03/24/08 09:46 AM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: Kimo2007]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Apologies Kimo, my fault. I was always taught that conditioning was a mental and physical process in boxing. That is what I meant from the get go.

I should've articulated that from the beginning! My bad.
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#387128 - 03/24/08 11:49 AM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: Prizewriter]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I'd say that has a lot to do with tenacity, luck and of course he'd credit his boxing training to his survival because that's what he was trained in.

But I will say that most Martial arts teaches the possibilities of defense against blunt weapons and would better prepare you for the assault rather then taking it. Of course blind sided or from behind you would get struck but I think its 50/50 you could be staggered by it it could take you out. Nothing really can prepare you for metal against skull except that he doesn't make solid contact.
Lets keep it real.

When you start talking in weapon assults the advantage is to the man with the weapon, but as a defender MA has a great advantage over boxing in that they have some training against a blunt object and boxers have non but reflexes and as you stated absorb impact not good odds.

Lets keep on topic h2h mono mono weapons offensively and defensely puts the odds in WC or MAs favor. Having defended against weapon attacks on the street knowing the possibilties are extremly important.

I'd say that WC still has the most economic approach to striking over boxing but power I'd still give to boxing.
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#387129 - 03/24/08 11:59 AM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: Prizewriter]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

I was always taught that conditioning was a mental and physical process in boxing.





I hear you, just a downside of trying to communicate in the forum world. But you bring up a good point, IMO mental toughness is even more important in SD then physical toughness.
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#387130 - 03/24/08 06:04 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: Kimo2007]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Quote:

I was always taught that conditioning was a mental and physical process in boxing.





I hear you, just a downside of trying to communicate in the forum world. But you bring up a good point, IMO mental toughness is even more important in SD then physical toughness.




IMO they go hand in hand. If a person is attacked
or during a confrontation.

First thing the adrenalin dump.
All the emotions that are attached can either drain the system or have the opposite effect. Either way being fit gives an advantage.

If a person is attacked and hit hard what are the effects?

Hurt=
Normaly little sense of pain through adrenalin,
Feeling of being sick
Wants to give up or anger at getting hit fuels the defence even more, again I think fitness plays an important part.

Stunned= Fighing on automatic if at all, untill the head clears, again fitness plays a part and the will to continue
or not as the case might be.

Is it mental toughness in this case defined as the fact through training the body and mind goes on automatic?

I personaly think it is.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (03/24/08 06:07 PM)

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#387131 - 03/24/08 09:54 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: jude33]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Too much thread drift lately...lets try and stay on topic.

One BIG problem that I've had with "arts" is the teaching of too many techniques vs. simple training/delivery system development. This is often why boxers tend to eat the lunches of wing chun guys.

When you focus on training, particularly "alive" training, what you end up with looks more like MMA than some style.

All we have are tools. Training them with resistance makes them (and we, the individual) work. What doesn't work simply won't play out.

More focus on training rather than technical "accumulation" would do most folks wonders.


-John

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#387132 - 03/25/08 03:59 AM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: JKogas]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
"This is often why boxers tend to eat the lunches of wing chun guys"

You forgot breakfast, tea and dinner
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#387133 - 03/25/08 12:34 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: JKogas]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Boxing is good training but pure boxers have limited vision of what a fight could be. Because they train for mid-range encounters and use fewer weapons they use them often and are good with them while you are in their range.

Bare fisted the Wing Chun man is at his best, gloves weaken his blows.

Boxers have good power in gloves and out, if they learn how to hit ungloved.

There are some pluses and minuses in both without refinements.


Edited by Neko456 (03/25/08 12:35 PM)
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#387134 - 03/25/08 03:32 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: Neko456]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
That begs the question, doesn't everyone wear gloves to train in?

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#387135 - 03/25/08 04:06 PM Re: Boxing is no good Wing Chun is better??? [Re: JKogas]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Most times but alot of MAs loose who they are (can't feel or trap or check the moves as well) in gloves. As in your dirty boxing it better to wear MMA or fingerless gloves rather then boxing gloves to do that because you want to grab the head and uppercut or whatever.

Wing Chun and I like to grab certain parts of the arm or shoulder or shrit certainly you can't to that with boxing gloves on.

Boxing is more a unclinched match even in close they consider it resting or cheating to tie up without finding punching room. With us its just going into a different range.

Hows is your distance boxing compared to your dirty boxing (I know you're good at that)? Can you handle a good boxer unclinched?

A lot of MAs can't handle a real fast jab w/o attacking the legs, WC is one of the arts that you gotta come better then that because thats what they train for imho.

So yes we train in gloves sometimes, you don't walk around with gloves on so its best to learn to hit without them, even boxers. What do you say?


Edited by Neko456 (03/25/08 04:08 PM)
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