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#387033 - 03/18/08 08:23 AM kicking with?
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
as a shotoan guy i've always been tought to kick with the ball of the foot. i've had one shotokan teacer show me to use the shin for attacking the legs, but he warned me "don't let your instrctor know i show'd you this, lol" and i've had TKD and jujtsu guys show me to use the instep and the shin as well.

but this ball of the foot thing really gets to me sometimes! i was working on the heavybag this weekend and i notice that when i kick with a full power round kick using the ball of my foot, my foot hurts. i can feel it in the bones of my foot, and sometimes (even in shoes) my toes bend back very painfully. i stretch them to help with this, but my toes only go back so far.

i prefer to kick with the low shin because it feels much more solid. i can swing mch harder with the shin and the bag feels it all. if i ever did this in a shotokan tournament though, i would not get the point (another discussion)

my best conclusion is that kicking with the foot is for light precise shots and the shins are for barn yard swingers. thoughts?
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#387034 - 03/18/08 08:44 AM Re: kicking with? [Re: student_of_life]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Someone may post a youtube clip of a kickboxing match, I think it was, where after a kick with the shin, the man's foot was visibly broken and the lower leg & foot dangling.

My own experience with the shin weapon kick is that it is very good, but if your angle is off, your knee is in for a horrible surprise and while the bag cooperates most of the time, a real person can move unexpectedly.

I've been taught to use all parts of my leg as weapons. The only one I never use is the toe thrust kick. I have no interest in developing this kick with bare feet. Usually I use the ball of the foot. Yes toes are a problem. I stopped counting my toe fractures and whenever possible, I practice with some kind of shoe on. I was taught that for the side kick and the round house kick, the most effective weapon is the heel. I never threw a really good round house heel personally, but I almost always use the heel for the side kick.
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#387035 - 03/18/08 10:48 AM Re: kicking with? [Re: underdog]
MidnightTrain Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Arkansas
In my particular style of Shorin-ryu, we kick with the tips of the toes. One of the benefits is that you don't have to kick with all your might, you can actually learn to 'tear' muscle instead of bruising it. Of course this takes more practice and accuracy but I've got nothing but time.
And all the talk of 'asking' for broken toes just amuses me.
I break knees and ribs of my opponents, not my toes.
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Okinawa Shorin-ryu Matsumura-Seito Karate and Kobodu Federation member Go Dan

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#387036 - 03/18/08 10:53 AM Re: kicking with? [Re: MidnightTrain]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i've kicked with the ball of my foot, and bent back toes that felt like tat broke. i could barely even put my foot back down on the ground.
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#387037 - 03/18/08 12:14 PM Re: kicking with? [Re: student_of_life]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
In my experience, each type of kick calls for a different weapon.

Ball of the foot -- Front thrust kick
Heel -- Hook kick, Wheel kick
Blade -- Side kick
Instep/Shin -- Front Snap kick, Round kick, Twist kick
Toe -- Only used when wearing my mudhole-stompin' boots.
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In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#387038 - 03/18/08 06:34 PM Re: kicking with? [Re: student_of_life]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I think it depends on the intended target and the angle you need to make it more effective.

I don't use the instep though, too many nerves on top of the foot.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#387039 - 03/19/08 10:52 AM Re: kicking with? [Re: BrianS]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I agree with Brian. Depends on target which will compel an angle of attack and suggest the weapon. This is very important for us Kyusho practitioners.
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The older I get, the better I was!

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#387040 - 03/19/08 11:07 AM Re: kicking with? [Re: student_of_life]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:


my best conclusion is that kicking with the foot is for light precise shots and the shins are for barn yard swingers. thoughts?




My thoughts are it the part of the body used is dependent on the target.
Bare footed kicking I dont train anymore.
To many old karare guys around with duff feet.

To my mind karate was a self defence in bare feet because of the times.

Shins for striking I use a fair bit.

Toes are used for specific targets by certain styles.
I only use toes if they are in decent foot ware.

Kicking the shins with the toes inside shoes hurts any attacker.

Jude

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#387041 - 03/19/08 11:34 AM Re: kicking with? [Re: student_of_life]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Quote:

my best conclusion is that kicking with the foot is for light precise shots and the shins are for barn yard swingers. thoughts?





Not necessarily in my opinion. There are plenty of targeted shots one can attempt with the shin---and then you have to ask, where on the shin? And as Brian and a few others have noted, depends on the target. I'll add these qualifications as well. Depends also on the distance and capability of the individual using the kick selected.

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#387042 - 03/19/08 12:10 PM Re: kicking with? [Re: butterfly]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
the higher up on the knee you make contact with, the more the kick becomes a push as well.
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