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#386372 - 03/13/08 12:55 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: jude33]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

If a modern boxer trained for a bout with a grappler, by learning grappling techniques so he would know what the grappler would do , I would call that training to use his art against a grappler.




That makes no sense whatsoever. If it is "in the art" to begin with, why do you need to train against the grappler?

That is cross-training, exactly my point. Nothing wrong with cross-training, either. But call it what it is.
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#386373 - 03/13/08 12:59 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: MattJ]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

Matt, the thing is I don't consider what I do cross training, you do. I guess that is a really big issue for you.




If by "you", you mean "damn near everybody but medulanet", then I agree.




Definitely, but I have always been different from everybody else.
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#386374 - 03/13/08 01:13 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: MattJ]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

If a modern boxer trained for a bout with a grappler, by learning grappling techniques so he would know what the grappler would do , I would call that training to use his art against a grappler.




That makes no sense whatsoever. If it is "in the art" to begin with, why do you need to train against the grappler?

That is cross-training, exactly my point. Nothing wrong with cross-training, either. But call it what it is.




If you look at how bare knuckle boxers trained before the different rules were made then they grappled, and did all kinds of wonderfull stuff.

Their art got watered down to what it is for safe competition. Sport..



I think the same thing happened to certain strains of karate. One of the reasons for a lack of most things is certain strains were sold to the West with a whole lot of stuff missing. It got watered down. If it was always there then to a degree I think it will be in the kata(s)


There is striking in Judo, as the art was established and given a name. But who trains it? Do judo ka train striking in judo? I dont think many do.
To re- establish striking then perhaps a Judo ka would have to train with a striker. Cross training to re- establish what was created and called judo in the first place.


My research is in the main to an Okinawan art that was later named karate.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (03/13/08 01:21 PM)

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#386375 - 03/13/08 03:28 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: jude33]
haze Offline
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Syracuse NY USA
Jude,

Judo having strikes? This I really never knew.

I know that judo is a derivative of jujutsu and many schools of jujutsu had strikes, both hands and feet. I was under the impression that judo took that out and was created for sport just as kendo was created for sport.


Edited by haze (03/13/08 03:36 PM)
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#386376 - 03/13/08 06:30 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: Zach_Zinn]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

On a related topic, I'd be interested in how you guys integrate the ground stuff in your classes generally.




We have learned groundfighting from an outside source and integrated it into our curriculum. We learn takedowns,sprawling,armbars,etc.. We don't get indepth with it though.

Quote:

For myself I have been teaching litte enough time that all we've really done is incredibly simple stuff like lapel chokes and side control, and it's not something we do that often.

Of course being Goju we do a fair amount of standing grappling, takedowns, and throws and on rare occasions we have actually "rolled" in class, but we are not good and it is mostly just for fun.




Ofcourse!
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#386377 - 03/13/08 06:31 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Made a long post addressing each of you points Brian. But I don't have the strength to compete with the marketing machine of American Goju. Another day, another time, maybe.




We're not into marketing. Don't want to be. We'll leave that to you and the ATA.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#386378 - 03/13/08 06:32 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: MattJ]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

Matt, the thing is I don't consider what I do cross training, you do. I guess that is a really big issue for you.




If by "you", you mean "damn near everybody but medulanet", then I agree.




_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#386379 - 03/13/08 06:54 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: haze]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA


Quote:

Judo having strikes? This I really never knew.

I know that judo is a derivative of jujutsu and many schools of jujutsu had strikes, both hands and feet. I was under the impression that judo took that out and was created for sport just as kendo was created for sport.




Hi Haze. I had to look it up myself, too. But Jude appears to be correct in this case:

http://www.judoinfo.com/jhist.htm

"Judo's striking techniques included upper (ude ate) and lower limb blows (ashi ate). Among the striking techniques were those utilizing fists, elbows, hand-edges, fingers, knees and feet as striking points. Because of its lethal nature, Atemi waza was also taught exclusively to high ranking Judokas at the Kodokan."

Probably why it is not well known.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#386380 - 03/13/08 11:12 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

Made a long post addressing each of you points Brian. But I don't have the strength to compete with the marketing machine of American Goju. Another day, another time, maybe.




We're not into marketing. Don't want to be. We'll leave that to you and the ATA.




What's the ATA? You really do know more about this stuff then you are letting on, don't you Brian S?
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

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#386381 - 03/14/08 12:30 AM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
You brought it up. If you want to start a thread questioning the merits and training of my club I'll be happy to answer your questions. You somehow feel the need to attack my position on the groundfighting in kata issue by attacking American Goju and the fact that I'm from Arkansas 'un we awl like ta wrassle'
_________________________
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