FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 31 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LeroyCFischer, JadeKing, Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111
22933 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 2
charlie 2
Zombie Zero 1
harlan 1
Matakiant 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
Forum Stats
22933 Members
36 Forums
35589 Topics
432521 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 6 of 14 < 1 2 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 13 14 >
Topic Options
#386392 - 03/14/08 12:25 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: Shonuff]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Shonuff, you are forgetting how much a part of okinawan culture karate was. Just as their grappling traditions were. They did not develop independent of each other. Research by Jokei Kushi explains that okinawan grappling traditions such as tegumi practice were combined with striking and kicking to become ti. This ti then eveloped into todi, which then became karate. Nagamine states in his book that Kyan's father instructed him in "karate wrestling" before he learned the classical kata with the karate experts of his time as preparation. Are you simply discounting all of this information?

Or rather let me ask this question. If there was never Tegumi would there have ever been Karate? No one knows for sure, but a BIG link in the chain would have been missing.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#386393 - 03/14/08 01:18 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: Shonuff]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/article_12.asp

Not sure if you have read this or not.



Quote
To be an effective fighter it is imperative that you have a knowledge of all ranges of fighting . Hence, it is vital that Tegumi forms part of our practice , just as it did for the masters of the past who formulated karate. Thankfully, those same masters recorded their grappling methods in the katas they developed. The key thing is to ensure that you study your katas to a sufficient depth. Thanks for taking the time to read this article. I hope you found it interesting.

End of quote.

Looks like I have more study material.

My brain is on overload now.

One thing with all this. We might all end up good grapplers.
But from drills and practice of course. Not just pure study
as in reading.
Ah well listen to some smooth relaxing music.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EBv_yF5qUM&feature=related

Thoughts on the video? Anybody? Not the music though!


Jude


Edited by jude33 (03/14/08 01:27 PM)

Top
#386394 - 03/14/08 01:37 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: jude33]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

To be an effective fighter it is imperative that you have a knowledge of all ranges of fighting . Hence, it is vital that Tegumi forms part of our practice , just as it did for the masters of the past who formulated karate. Thankfully, those same masters recorded their grappling methods in the katas they developed.




The problem is, where is evidence of that pre-1991?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#386395 - 03/14/08 01:46 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: MattJ]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Quote:

To be an effective fighter it is imperative that you have a knowledge of all ranges of fighting . Hence, it is vital that Tegumi forms part of our practice , just as it did for the masters of the past who formulated karate. Thankfully, those same masters recorded their grappling methods in the katas they developed.




The problem is, where is evidence of that pre-1991?




Still working on it Matt.
If I didnt think it was worth looking I wouldnt realy be doing it as such.
I am a student but I should get there one day.
And will post the results.
The video I found and posted is more BJJ just wondering what people thought.
I think Patrick McCarthy Sensei posts on the forum.

Jude

Top
#386396 - 03/14/08 02:37 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: MattJ]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

To be an effective fighter it is imperative that you have a knowledge of all ranges of fighting . Hence, it is vital that Tegumi forms part of our practice , just as it did for the masters of the past who formulated karate. Thankfully, those same masters recorded their grappling methods in the katas they developed.




The problem is, where is evidence of that pre-1991?




Do you mean other than the fact that Motobu talked about using karate techniques to grapple with an opponent? Or maybe Kyan being trained by his father in "karate wrestling" before training classical kata. Or maybe Jokei Kushi's research reporting that Ti, the precursor to modern karate was a combination of tegumi (a grappling practice with joint locks and chokes) and striking and kicking techniques. Proof like this?
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#386397 - 03/14/08 02:53 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: medulanet]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I was actually referring to evidence of grappling/groundwork in kata. But even with the stuff you mention, there is very little in the historical record about grappling/groundwork in karate.

But we have been over this before.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#386398 - 03/14/08 03:07 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: MattJ]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

I was actually referring to evidence of grappling/groundwork in kata. But even with the stuff you mention, there is very little in the historical record about grappling/groundwork in karate.

But we have been over this before.




Matt, you do realize do to the extensive death and destruction caused by the US and Japan during WWII there were very little historical records left in okinawa.

Now, if you want the okinawans to explicitly express fighting language regarding their art in specific terms we use due to the combative sporting arenas that have come to pass after the events of "1991" prior to "1991" I don't think you will find that anywhere. Thus you are right by default. The thing is not everyone compartmentalizes everything like we do. For some grappling is grappling. If its standing, fine. If it goes to the ground, fine. A choke is a choke and a joint lock is a joint lock. Standing or on the ground, whatever. Not that they are exactly the same, but not everyone has a "fear" or preoccupation with "the ground". Again, to some grappling is grappling.

For me its kind of weird for me since I have been aware of and associated with grappling roughly since I started training karate and before th events of "1991" because if I ever told someone I wrestled or was into grappling they never said, well yes, but do you grapple on the ground. If they had said that I would have looked at them with the "crook eye" and told them, "Say no to crack."
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#386399 - 03/14/08 06:39 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Made a long post addressing each of you points Brian. But I don't have the strength to compete with the marketing machine of American Goju. Another day, another time, maybe.




Here is where YOU brought up marketing.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#386400 - 03/14/08 10:55 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

Made a long post addressing each of you points Brian. But I don't have the strength to compete with the marketing machine of American Goju. Another day, another time, maybe.




Here is where YOU brought up marketing.




Yes Brian, that post was in response to yours. I'm not sure if you know this, but sequence of events really goes a long way in understanding. Your post was first, then mine followed. See, that's the funny thing. If you had never made your comment I would not have made mine. Maybe if you spend a little less time trying to be right and a little more time paying attention to little stuff like this we could communicate better.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#386401 - 03/14/08 11:16 PM Re: Universal Usage of Okinawan Karate Techniques [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
My point was that you brought up the marketing, not me, and in that I am right.

Anyone here find that evidence Matt was talking about yet?

oh...there is none. The problem with bunkai in general is that it is only limited by the imigination of the guy doing it. If he 'sees' groundfighting in naihanchi, then who can claim he is wrong? (besides the sane karate masses)So,with that said I will invent my own bunkai which is and has always been in American Goju.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
Page 6 of 14 < 1 2 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 13 14 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Ronin1966 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga