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#383647 - 02/21/08 09:08 AM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: BrianS]
JM2007 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 37
Loc: San Antonio, TX
BrianS,

Why do you feel this woman was brutalized? I think it is VERY interesting that the footage is rolling except when she actually gets hurt. I would bet that part is on tape, too, however, was deleted for the purpose of this video. Based on the nature of the injuries on her face, I would say the following:

First, since I was not there, I also am not sure exactly what happened here, however, based on many years of law enforcement experience, I can make an educated guess. First of all, she was not at all compliant, so she was placed in cuffs. The officer did not use any strikes or anything to control, only guided hand controls on the video (once again, not there and there may have been more...don't know). However, what PROBABLY happened is that she got hyper again, and ended up falling face down on the floor. Since she was handcuffed, she broke her fall with her nose and forehead. The nature of the injury looks like severe broken nose. The unknowledgeable person would assume the black eyes are from strikes to the eyes and face, however, that is actually more consistent with a major impact to the nose...like falling flat on the face. Since the video obviously has parts missing, it looks more to me like it has been tampered with to appear as if the cops did something wrong...I'd be willing to bet the only thing done wrong in this case was leaving the room and letting her hurt herself. If they had actually beat her and then tried to cover it up, do you really think you would be seeing even this much of the tape?

As far as the first video shown...absolutely no excuse for dumping a man out of a wheelchair. That deputy and all involved should be not just fired, but in jail. Having said that, though, bear in mind that MOST of what you see, even if the cops did something wrong is still reported in a biased manner. For instance, if you watch the video, you will see the man in the wheelchair tapping/moving his left leg towards the end of the video...a quadrapelegic (sp?) can't do that. I think he probably definitely needs to be in a wheelchair...but I also think the media tweaked the story just a little. That is not to sound like I am defending the deputies...they were absolutely wrong. But I wish the stories were truly unbiased and presented only the facts, or even opinions based on the facts, but instead, they are usually slanted to present the viewer only one side, often with facts changed to suit the story (read: lies).

Bad cops should be severely punished. Period. However, I think there are a lot more incidents where is is assumed the cops used excessive force when in fact they did not, than the other way around. I have personally been accused of using excessive force several times...but the evidence always showed I acted in accordance with law and standard procedure. But I also know for a fact that if some of the situations I have been in were video-taped, it would have been extremely easy to cut certain parts out and make it look like I was not only the instigator, but clearly the aggressor, which was never the case.

Just my two cents. Respectfully, Jason

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#383648 - 02/21/08 10:00 AM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: JM2007]
hunterkell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
Hey Jason,

We have a lot of good people on this board.

But you will see a bit of popo bashing from some members. Don't know why but it seems a small minority of them come on here to exorcize some type of personal demon(s).

But we also have a quite a few that try to view things with an open mind and consider things on a case by case basis.

Welcome,
K
_________________________
Remembering 3655K

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#383649 - 02/21/08 03:20 PM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: hunterkell]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
not that it matters but someone using "kyusho" as part of their screen-name is posting this stuff all over the place--couple of other MA forums etc.

Just an FYI

Not sure how to take someone from a whole other country that is so keen to get the news out that every now and then you get some bad LEO's in the States.

When something bad happens in England I don't usully rush to my keyboard and send by friends in Londan a video clip of something that happend just down the street from them.

Maybe they are just looking out for us?



Edited by cxt (02/21/08 03:25 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#383650 - 02/21/08 04:36 PM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: hunterkell]
JM2007 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 37
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Hi Kelly,

Quote:

We have a lot of good people on this board.




I have to completely agree. I have learned a lot from a number of people in this forum. I usually just read and kind of stay in the background...but every now and then I feel I have to say something.

Thanks for the welcome....respectfully, Jason

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#383651 - 02/22/08 06:39 PM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: JM2007]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Why do you feel this woman was brutalized? I think it is VERY interesting that the footage is rolling except when she actually gets hurt. I would bet that part is on tape, too, however, was deleted for the purpose of this video. Based on the nature of the injuries on her face, I would say the following:

First, since I was not there, I also am not sure exactly what happened here, however, based on many years of law enforcement experience, I can make an educated guess. First of all, she was not at all compliant, so she was placed in cuffs. The officer did not use any strikes or anything to control, only guided hand controls on the video (once again, not there and there may have been more...don't know). However, what PROBABLY happened is that she got hyper again, and ended up falling face down on the floor. Since she was handcuffed, she broke her fall with her nose and forehead. The nature of the injury looks like severe broken nose. The unknowledgeable person would assume the black eyes are from strikes to the eyes and face, however, that is actually more consistent with a major impact to the nose...like falling flat on the face. Since the video obviously has parts missing, it looks more to me like it has been tampered with to appear as if the cops did something wrong...I'd be willing to bet the only thing done wrong in this case was leaving the room and letting her hurt herself. If they had actually beat her and then tried to cover it up, do you really think you would be seeing even this much of the tape?





My post,just as yours, is pure speculation. I agree that the woman was not compliant,but the way the officer handled it made things more difficult. I saw him repeatedly slam the woman into the wall. I think that's where the injuries came from,not from strikes(duh). How likely is it that she fell straight forward on her face and received those injuries? Not likely IMO , I'm not buying it.

I saw the tape of the man being dumped on the floor and I have seen many tapes of cops doing things that they shouldn't be doing. That's really not relevant.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#383652 - 02/23/08 12:23 AM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: BrianS]
JM2007 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 37
Loc: San Antonio, TX
BrianS,

Respectfully, I think we just have to agree to disagree. However, I do have a couple of questions first.

1. I see that she was pushed against the wall. I don't see slammed. You might think I am playing semantics, but there is a HUGE difference, especially when you are talking about use of force in a court of law. At what point was she slammed against the wall?

2. Since I have dealt with very similar situations many times, and I have and will continue to handle it similarly, can you tell me how YOU would handle it? Would you have placed her in handcuffs? Would you have tried to make her sit down? When she refused to, then what would you do? Was physically controlling her the wrong thing to do when she was in no way compliant?

3. You want to know how likely it is someone in handcuffs falls flat on their face? It happens ALL THE TIME. That's why we make people sit down. When they don't, we try to force them to sit down.

4. This video was very obviously edited. By whom?

5. I have also seen videos of cops doing things they shouldn't do. I have seen many, many more videos of citizens doing things they shouldn't be doing. I have seen hundreds of videos of cops being attacked by citizens, many of them killed. Have you seen those, too? I didn't see any posts where you were appalled at the way those cops were treated.

As I stated before, cops who do bad things should be held criminally liable, but as a general rule, it should be assumed that cops are doing the right thing. You believe this woman was beaten up because you saw part of some video footage where she was not compliant, was handcuffed, and pushed against the wall...in order to get control of her. There are several parts missing, but yet you somehow automatically believe the cops were wrong and deleted the video. I'll say once again...if that were the case, don't you think they would have deleted the WHOLE video?

Last...of course she is going to say she was beat up. They always do.

I do understand why you might think the way you do (lack of knowledge...just stating an opinion and not meant to be derogatory), but I also think you should start to give the benefit of the doubt to the men and women who are putting their lives on the line for you every day.

No offense, but right now, your opinion is kind of like that of a back seat driver. If you want to really understand, go become a cop, get some personal experience encountering situations like this, and then watch videos such as this. Let's see if your opinion changes. Unless you have already done that, in which case I will simply defer to you.

Have you been in the driver's seat?

By the way....this isn't just to BrianS...this is to everyone who agrees with him.

Respectfully, Jason

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#383653 - 02/23/08 06:28 PM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: JM2007]
WC_Lun Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 30
Loc: Kansas City MO
There are bad LEOs out there and as Jason says, they ought to be prosecuted. For the most part, officers are trying to do a damn hard job and they do it well. Taking an incomplete video and forming a biased opinion on that video isn't fair to either the officer or the women. Unfortunately, for every video I see where an officer might be overstepping I see others where an officer is being attacked, shot at, or attempted to be run over, but I've never seen the public outcry on these.

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#383654 - 02/23/08 10:51 PM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: kyushoperson]
karate_popo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 154
Loc: NYC
Quote:

Heres another recent one

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b3_1203380543

You guys dont seem bothered by these scum?

I hope youre not coppers

cause that'd make it seem like you condone this behaviour?

tc

H




of course cops are bothered when other cops act like idiots.. but like we say.. cops are human.. they are LE as a job.. so you expect all of them to be perfect?..no one is perfect.. doesn't matter what job they hold.. too bad the media rarely writes about stuff that is positive...i am tired of explaining this to people..it is what it is.. it's stupid to make more out of it

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#383655 - 02/28/08 03:16 PM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: JM2007]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Jason,

That's alot of questions? I did say that it was merely speculation, yet you want to get bent out of shape because you don't agree with me.

I'm not going to bother going round and round on this pointless debate, I don't want to bother.

I stated what I saw and my opinions based on a video I saw, big woop. You are right on all accounts.

Quote:

No offense, but right now, your opinion is kind of like that of a back seat driver. If you want to really understand, go become a cop, get some personal experience encountering situations like this, and then watch videos such as this. Let's see if your opinion changes. Unless you have already done that, in which case I will simply defer to you.





I agree with you there. IT WAS A VIDEO and I was not there. Didn't I state that I was merely stating my opinion? Anyway....
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#383656 - 02/29/08 01:06 PM Re: Scary Stuff Bad Cops [Re: BrianS]
hunterkell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
BrianS,

The point that Jason was making is that your opinion was drawn on incomplete information and therefore might not be a valid or realistic conclusion.

I don't think Jason was "bent out of shape" concerning his reply.

It seems his reply was merely pointing out the
validity of your conclusion(s) that you were infering were somewhat askance due to the incomplete information that was supplied.

Further. this is the statement on your part:

"I'm not sure what happened here,but that woman was brutalized while in handcuffs"

First you say "I'm not sure here......." then you proceed with the statement, "this woman was brutalized..."

I think it was more the second part of your statement was what J took issue with.

When civilians make statements about these types of incidents, many times they are drawing conclusions that to them are academic in nature and they don't give it much thought.

BUT to people that are in the business of LEO work and put their reputations, their lives, and in some cases their families' lives on the line to perform a job, such a careless and irresposnible assesment of a halfa$$ed video taped incident is abhorrent (because THEN some civilian that knows nothing about the job invariable says something like, "I'm not sure what happened here,but that woman was brutalized while in handcuffs").

Not trying to flame you, just trying to show why such statements as the one you (and others make) made might be objectionable to others.

Kel
_________________________
Remembering 3655K

Nothing is impossible for the person that doesn't have to do it.

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