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#383474 - 05/04/08 04:53 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: martialartspeon]

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 12
Pity about all politics and stuff but dont cry about km being basic, muggers or drunks arnt going to wait untill you do complex moves that youve been training for 10 years in a dojo, there gonna smack you in the teeth and if your lucky you get a chance to smack back harder so i favor ckm, does exactly what it says on the tin!!!!!

#383475 - 05/04/08 09:48 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: GOVINDA]
ruger45 Offline

Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Germantown Md
I don't think it's losing it's rep. If anything I think it's gaining more rep. At least in the Maryland/DC/Va area. I have men and women from all walks of life in my classes and I think that is a good thing. I think it's three or four schools in a 50mile radius.

#383476 - 05/04/08 11:42 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: ruger45]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Yeah, now we just need a school down in Fredericksburg, VA and all is good..Ya ever meet or train at KMNova in Springfield/franconia VA?
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

#383477 - 05/17/08 10:09 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JasonM]
ruger45 Offline

Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Germantown Md

Yeah, now we just need a school down in Fredericksburg, VA and all is good..Ya ever meet or train at KMNova in Springfield/franconia VA?

No, I have never been to any of the other schools in this area. This summer I plan to get out to a few of them. I think it will be pretty cool to train with a group/instructor from time-to-time.

#383478 - 05/19/08 09:27 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: ruger45]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 921
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Its a shame that people get bad experiences of Martial Arts like this
I teach/practice Ashihara Karate and practice Wado Ryu, and from What I see after reading most of the Krav Maga Books out there (as due to being 'Non-Jewish' I am unable to train at my local Maccabbi), I can't see much difference to Krav Maga and any other Martial Art.

If grading is what you require then I'd recommend the Traditional Martial Arts Route. If quick effective training is all you require then Krav Maga or Kippap is all you need.

I'm actually planning a trip to Israel in 2010 to hopefully find a gym to train at for a few weeks etc


A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.


#383479 - 06/03/08 10:11 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: Dobbersky]
Arentele Offline

Registered: 06/03/08
Posts: 5
Loc: United States
I agree and disagree. I think someone already said it, KM is a victim of its own success. I've been training for about 9 months now off and on and even in that short of a time I see so many new faces come through the gym where I train.
Tae Kwan Do, Ju Jitsu, Muay Thai, and now Krav Maga

#422623 - 09/30/09 02:48 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: Arentele]
OrZ Offline

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 2
well i am from israel and i am into krav maga for a few years now, as for a few things i saw said here so it goes like this:

1. all soldiers in israel practice KM for a surtain degree, as combatants need to know it at some lever, and commando warriors need to learn it at a bit more advenced level.

2. the km as different to other styles is basicly in the mindset as it doesnt have alot of "New" techniques but it assembles into it's form alot of techniques from other martial arts such as Tkd, Muay Thai, Bjj, Aikido, Karate and so on... but it does change them a bit to synergize with the KM mindeset which is to neutrelize the enemy as fast as possible! krav maga basicly just takes out everything that isn't relevant to killing, immobalizing or taking down you'r enemy.

my coach trained the israeli commando also when he was in the army and he does it only for the love of the martial arts as so do i. we train with our own clothes, without belts or anything and there are techniques which we learn because it is "a must" but he says "DO NOT EVER USE THIS ON A STREET FIGHT" as so... even alot of bjj takedowns and graps. if u take a man to the ground in the street and you start working your way guard -> mount and the rest, his friend will just come and kick u in the head while u are trying to get a lock on this man.

as from what i saw here about krav maga i can tell you that if u are looking for a system that will help u fight IN THE STREET vs weapons and real attackers u have it here, i learned TKD & Judo for a number of years and friends of mine learnd Kung fu and Karate also for several years and i can truly say that the techniques in krav maga are much easier and more intuitive and oriented for a real street fight.

and as about the intensity of the trainings, it is all up to the coach u have, if you aren't satisfied with how the training is going through but you do love the system itself go to train somewhere else as i can say i didnt encounter a system that is so direct and straight to the point, as my trainer tells me all the time, Krav Maga is not a Martial Art! it's Self Defence!
here comes the difference between the beuty of kung fu and the directiveness of KM. The philosophy of life in Aikido and the Km "kill him" style.

#422629 - 09/30/09 10:05 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: OrZ]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
What reputation did Krav Maga really ever have? Just curious. I've personally never thought highly of it. What's the big deal?

#422664 - 10/01/09 10:43 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JKogas]
Dedicated1 Offline

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
What's the big deal with any system? It's what the student is interested in that I think makes it a big deal. If your looking for a system with no forms or kata's, no mandatory belt testing for some, then you might think Krav is a big deal. Just like if your into forms and kata's the ancient history of the system etc. you may say Taekwondo is a big deal. What people consider a big deal is up to them. I think Krav is a great system that is battle tested, straight to the point, and very effective. To me that's a big deal, to others maybe it isn't. Whatever your system is, make it a big deal for yourself and keep training.
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

#423816 - 11/30/09 03:50 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JKogas]
ArizonaKravMaga Offline

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Phoenix and Verde Valley, Ariz...
Okay, I waited until I had time to read every post before putting in my 2 cents.....

I know this is an old thread, but it is still worth commenting on.

When Krav Maga was founded, it met a need. It answered the need of a small military force which until that time, was practicing KAPAP - basically stick fighting because the British Mandate prevented them from arming themselves. KAPAP evolved in Krav Maga and so on. The Kapap being taught today is not what was taught then....

It is true that Krav in the IDF is primarily a means of getting soldiers to fighting proficiency quickly and is also used to help condition them - in basic training. It is not necessarily true that all units do the "same" Krav Maga. KM is a principle based system. CKM does not, for the most part, fit into those principles and therefore is not really KM per se. It does have some good stuff in it, and it can be used to protect one self, but it is not nor has it ever been used to train any "units". Some spec ops guys attended a (maybe more than one) seminar to determine if it was usable, and determined that as for their units, it was not. Again, this does not mean it is worthless, only that is has successfully followed the path of many KM org's and used very effective marketing which may or may not all be true and which is difficult to verify and/or refute. On another note, KM has evolved. My instructor, Moshe Katz, is the highest ranked student of Itay Gil. Google Mr. Gil's name and you will find many references to his name, the most popular of which is his being the lead instructor to the guys on the Human Weapon episode. Prior to his television career (LOL) he served in the Paratrooper Recon, and later as a KM instructor to his unit. After his service he served in YAMAM and after 3 years spent the rest of his career as both an operator and lead tactics instructor. He currently trains, Duvdevan as a sr. instructor. He works with the Israeli Prison Service. He even trained the security detail for the Israeli President a few years back. You name it, if someone needs high speed training which works, they call Itay Gil - including, but not limited to, the teams wishing updated training after the massacre at Mumbai.

Yes, what we do is different than other Krav Maga orgs. Yes we have belts. Yes we want to see how people respond under pressure. Yes we expect them to attend class, train hard and prepare for the next level. However, Israeli Krav International focuses on the science of the fight in more than just how we word things. Our skills/techniques are based on using proper "bio-mechanically correct" [(a phrase first coined by Itay not Moni (Pino) Aizik)] movements which maximize gross motor skills instead of just saying it. Grabbing the muzzle of a gun with 1 hand and trying to redirect it is NOT gross motor skills! Trying to twist someone's arm inward and upward after using a 360 degree block and then "grabbing" it with just that one hand again is NOT gross motor movements. In the eternal words of Dan Inosanto "Knife disarms are incidental if NOT accidental"! We don't disarm a knife wielding attacker. We attack the attacker and sometimes we're lucky and get a bonus - a knife disarm. The goal however is not to take his knife, but to pummel him until the knife is less a threat!

So, has KM lost reputation? Well, with all the internal litigation, the ridiculous claims of lying multi-million dollar fakery, and even the legitimate claims of those who are still teaching exactly what Imi taught with little to no changes to match the modern understanding of combat science.... I'd have to say no. No it has not lost any reputation. It has however, in those circles, lost credibility. It's lost face, if you will. People who were fitness instructors but claiming special forces combat experience..... those who were map laminators claiming to have been YAMAM operators (lochem) and intel officers at the same time (which simply doesn't happen)...... those who talk about the charlatans who snuck in after Imi's death and have tried to take illegitimate titles as grand master this or that..... a student claiming all rights to KM for an entire continent and suing their instructor when he comes to their country and teaches without written consent...... it just goes on and on.

The bottom line.... do the research. Find people who are training high level persons 'right now' and check it out. Get materials from many sources. Don't look at the quality of the production, look at the quality of the application of KM principles and modern combat science. If it meets the scrutiny of those, then train it a while then ask people who do and some who do not know what's coming to "try and prevent my defense to this attack". Show them what you want but don't show all of them what you intend to do. Put on pads and try it full contact some too. Does it work even if the "bad guy" knows what's coming and tries to prevent it from working? Does it work if the "bad guy" doesn't know and is aggressive or skilled in another discipline? Answer all this for yourself. If it works, then it works. If it doesn't search elsewhere.

I get updates from Israel pretty regularly. Sometimes often, sometimes not.... it just depends on if students under Moshe and/or Itay are being injured or killed using a technique. They tried to stay ahead of the curve, but sometimes it's not possible or necessary. This is why what we do differs from ALL other orgs. Nearly all the stuff used by other orgs has failed in the field and has been replaced by our leaders. This isn't to say it never works, but if 1 soldier, prison guard, presidential executive protection agent, YAMAM Lochem, Duvdevan Operator, or civilian student gets hurt the skill he was using gets reviewed and revised or even replaced. I am always growing in Israeli Krav International.

Train Hard, Live Well, Be Safe!!

Edited by ArizonaKravMaga (11/30/09 04:14 PM)
"That is the most necessary and difficult thing in krav maga - that I must be so good that I don't have to kill" or in regard to punishing an attacker "Why do you want to break a dead man's bones?" Translated from Imi Lichtenfeld in Cleveland, OH 1984

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