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#383454 - 02/17/08 05:00 PM Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation?
drmickey Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 27
Hi, on Sunday the 10th of February I attended a seminar and grading hosted by the Institute of Krav Maga (London)in Essex, UK – The seminar was taught by the global chief instructor Eyal Yanilov.

There were over 200 participants from all over the country and at different levels – P2-P5. The seminar lasted for about 2 hours.

I thought that the global instructor would give an interesting seminar – give us an insight that that we would not normally get at a regular class – That wasn’t the case - There was nothing covered that would not be part of a regular class. One thing he spent about 30 minutes on was the ‘escape from a choke’, which personally I don’t think would happen in reality (you know what I am talking about – where the attacker grabs the neck with out-stretched arms!). Although he did try to be humorous, when approached he wasn’t as friendly! Following the ‘techniques’ he proceeded to demonstrate some stretching exercises and give some advice on body alignment! What this had to do with a reality-based self-defense seminar bewilders me!

The grading commenced after a lunch break –
Personally, I find that gradings are just a measure of how well you remember a set number of moves! The only martial arts that actually earn their belts are those practitioners of Judo and Brazilian Ju Jitsu – they have to fight for their belts!

My partner and I were missing trivial things and were picked up on them. It seemed that the guy supervising our section was just showing off his style! I thought we were going to fail. Krav Maga is about getting out of a situation with a measure of skill and aggression – missing a footing or a certain strike (which would have complicated the escape) was being pedantic.

Although, they were trying to maintain a standard and some of those grading failed- I think there's a great cannon between knowing material sufficient to pass a grading and knowing how to react in a real situation! While I was grading I was looking at others and I saw flimsy, half hearted efforts when executing moves.

I am not going to grade in KM again - I don't see the point. I fear that KM is going the way of other martial arts - down the commercial route. There are a lot of superfluous techniques that have nothing to do with self defence and more to do with filling a syllabus to justify a grading. I think that the IKMF is concerned with making money and just like other like minded MA organisations it ‘encourages’ its students to attend seminars and grading!
One of the selling points of KM for me was that it stands out from other MAs was that there were no belt systems and no grading - just practical SD.

From what I saw last week, a lot people there were training towards a grading rather than training for what KM offers – a practical SD system…..! Passing a grade doesn’t necessarily say one is going to be effective in a real situation and I think if they measure their progress by how many strips they have they may be deluded into a false sense of security…..
I was mixed with a few guys at one point and I barely tapped their groin guards and they were nearly on their knees – They obviously don't strike in their training - in other words they don’t train with a realistic mind set!

KM is becoming popular and is being marketed as being one of the best self defence systems in the world – I have seen in several advertisements on KM websites mentioning of KM in movies and which movie star practice it – Is that what it’s about? Just because Jennifer Lopez did it in ‘Enough’ does that warrant the claim that it is a practical SD system? I have never seen a real life scenario where KM was used in an actual street attack.

I hope that KM doesn’t develop a bad reputation for been a watered down non-reality based martial arts system!

So, why did I bother grading - well, I was interested in taking part in one of the training breaks abroad KM do - and one of the entry requirements are to be at a certain grade - After my experience of this seminar I don't think I will waste my money and time doing that now!

Anyone else have a similar feeling towards KM?

Thanks,

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#383455 - 02/17/08 05:33 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: drmickey]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
My only direct dealing with Krav Maga was that it was slick and highly commercialized.

There was an American Kenpo teacher who was originally offered the franchise for the area where I used to live. For the tremendous amount of money he would have had to spent, he would have gotten 3 days of training and a video set. He declined.

Sure, the guy who took the 3 day training is making his money back and then some. Even quit his regular job and expanded into quite a large operation.

But if you train in KM, chances are, you will learn everything that teacher knows in 24 hours of classes. So it comes as no surpise that the world leader s offering only a 2 hour general seminar with no new information. If he offered a weekend seminar as is so common in Japanese arts, they would have to give instructor credentials to everyone.

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#383456 - 02/17/08 06:45 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JAMJTX]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

My only direct dealing with Krav Maga was that it was slick and highly commercialized.





All I can say is that their marketing has been first rate!

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#383457 - 02/17/08 06:51 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JKogas]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
Absolutely. They know how to sell.
Anyone in any business can learn a lot from them.

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#383458 - 02/17/08 07:01 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: drmickey]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I trained for about a year in KM and really loved it for the most part, but left for a very simple reason - I got bored. I really appreciate the way KM deals with gross motor skills for SD, and it can be learned quickly and effectively. I also really liked the conditioning aspect, because some of the conditions we were set to spar or fight under were RIDICULOUS. There really is something to be said for being pushed to your physical limit, and THEN being expected to defend yourself.
However, after I got the jist of the curriculum I realized that it was just repetition and that I might as well spend time conditioning for the sake of conditioning. The skillset was incredibly basic and I felt like there was an 'academic' side of the style that was severely lacking.
I think this is why you see superfluous techniques in the curriculum now, and the advertising juggernaut - the KM organizations don't want to make their $ from weekend seminars. They want steady, dependable income and don't want to lose students who wish to pursue other ideas and arts.
Krav played a big part in my MA life, as I took it up when I first moved to Chicago and I got some valuable tools out of it that helped me feel safer here. But after that point I just got plain sick of it.
2 cents, nothing more.

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#383459 - 02/17/08 07:05 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JAMJTX]
TKD-Skippi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 268
Loc: Scotland, Selkirk
all i've seen of of KM is guys who are suposed to be ex royal marine commandos or U.S Navy seals etc going on about how there art is the only way and that we're all gong to die tomorow from bieng un prepared for an attacker...who better to teach you how to fight off Dr X than Action-man....for he is simply the greatest heroe of them all.
_________________________
Do not be overcome by evil , but overcome evil with good -Romans 13:21

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#383460 - 02/19/08 12:06 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: TKD-Skippi]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA

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#383461 - 02/19/08 10:47 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: drmickey]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Interesting...

Sorry you had that experience with KM but as with anything that goes mainstream and is intended to be profitable, it will follow a predictable path of least resistance. What sells KM and FIGHT to the masses (not necessarily to the dedicated practioners here) is not the art and it's heritage, but the "image" it has. It essentially appeals to the executives and soccer moms who want the idea and image of being able to defend themselves with the "same stuff" used by a legendary military force. Serious KM/ FIGHT guys deal with this all the time in their classes watching 80+% of the students decline to spar with any real contact, happy to go the rough the motions and buy a t-shirt.

There are serious students who would be formidable in any system but they are generally in the minority as the main focus of the training does not address their needs and tends to push them into coaching roles.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#383462 - 03/03/08 01:14 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: drmickey]
sfq88 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 3
I'm by no means an expert and don't mean to put any system down, but I did take "regular" KM classes in the UK and started to feel like it was more commercialized than I wanted, simply in large part because it seemed as though they were trying to put more people in the room. I think anytime you get 200 people in a room, you're not learning anything and unless there are dozens of instructors, you're just wasting your time.

I had good luck with Stewart McGill (not being paid or anything here...). He was instructing in CKM but formed his own school for various reasons, I wouldn't doubt part of it for financial/political reasons. He was a great instructor, held 4 classes/week around London and even if the class sizes got up to 20+, he was able to give a lot of personal attention and had a few jr. instructors who roamed around as well. He also mixed it up a bit for more advanced students-although I was not too advanced, for those long term students, he mixed in some good grappling instructions and other techniques from his varied MA background.

I moved back to the states and am on my way to a Haganah FIGHT class next week which Stewart recommended, and I have to say, he was such a good teacher that we're following his advice. That and I can't find another KM instructor close enough to me to make it efficient for me to go to classes.

And like I said, I swear he's not paying me for this. Just google his name and london krav and he'll come up.

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#383463 - 03/03/08 09:41 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: sfq88]
martialartspeon Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 23
Ranks in Krav Maga! Crazy I never had the impression true krav maga practitioners gave a [censored] about a rank.
_________________________
Martial Arts Schools - First 50 School Listings are FREE

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#383464 - 03/03/08 09:45 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: martialartspeon]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Well, i wouldn't say they don't give a chit about rank. If you look at the IKMA they wear colored belts and KMWW do not wear belts but their equivalent is level's which equate to belt colors. It would be nice but I think hard to do away with levels/belts.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#383465 - 03/03/08 05:37 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JasonM]
TomTom Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 35
Loc: UK
I think that unfortunatly that some of you have just been unlucky with the schools you have been too, and the instructors you've had..?
And that is something that is probably more of a issue across all types of MA.
I'm very lucky it seems, have very small classes (average about 12 people) no selling in of equipment. No gradings, no levels/belts etc.
This is told to you from the start. If thats what your into then fine there are plenty classes that will kit you out in shiny gear and give you a belt for a fee.
The issue that people have on this thread is across all MA not just Krav.
It has grown rapidly and therefore there is money to be made. And plenty of people will use purely as a money earning machine. If the class you first visit come across that way, then don't go.
I remember visiting a well known ju-jitsu class and being told I would get my first belt when I referred someone new to the class. At that point I walked.
If there had been a class of two hundred - I would have walked.
To me paying for instruction is the same as buying a car. I'm not going to hand my money over for just anything!
Shop wisely!
_________________________
He who dares wins, Rodney!

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#383466 - 03/07/08 07:54 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: drmickey]
Mr_Davies_VA Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 6
Loc: VA
I think that people confuse combative arts with commercial arts. what I emphasize to my students is that the test is there to establish a measurable standard for evaluation. The purpose of the art is not a belt or a score; but to develop a combat mindset and the skills to execute the intent of that mindset... to defeat any enemy through maneuver and overwhelming force. True Krav will never lose it's reputation, only the McDonalds' brand studios and courses. If you can't tell the difference, look for flare.
_________________________
"Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for."

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#383467 - 03/07/08 10:07 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: Mr_Davies_VA]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
In Israel, isn't "Krav Maga" just the basic entro training anyway? It seems to me that it was never meant to be the whole deal and the be all end all or anything, just a quick way to make regular guys into competent fighters who have a chance with little training time and thus the curriculum is abbreviated and focused on mind set and conditioning drills. In Israel I thought that the advanced and more extensive stuff came from Lotar/Kapap. It's like US Army Basic Combat training vs. Advanced Individual Training (I can't wait-Fort Benning here I come in just a few months!). I think it has been marketed to be something it's not. To me it seems a great way to make regular guys into decent fighters and more importantly, aggressive and instinctual and maybe to give some good assistance to a traditional martial arts system.
I dont think it's supposed to be a full on martial art, just an introductory and quick fix way to learn to fight, and it does supplement regular martial arts well.
Of course what do I know I'm 17 and have been training for all of 5 years (not consistent either till 2.5 years ago, just off and on till then).
If you need to learn fast like a soldier, then it's the best, if you want to supplemtn your regular ma training with something a bit more real (like a TKD blackbelt friend of mine), but if you want a complete system that will keep you growing for life then I think it's best to look elswhere.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#383468 - 03/08/08 07:58 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: martialartspeon]
BrianRVanCise Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 110
Loc: Alma, Michigan
I think we have multiple layers of Krav Maga practitioners out there. (this goes for many martial systems)

1) There are the real hard core type of Krav Maga practitioners (they don't care about anything other than practiticing and training)

2) We have the people who just want to show up train a little, etc.

3) We have the people who just want to say they did Krav Maga

Now here is where it really gets tricky in that you have the same layers of instructors out there.

1) You have the real deal Krav Maga instructor all the time and train, hard and intense. They are simply into it!

2) You have the Krav Maga instructor who is good but wants to make money.

3) You have the Krav Maga instructor who trained for three days and now is teaching the material.

As a student of Krav Maga you have to look very carefully to distringuish who you want to train under and with.

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#383469 - 03/08/08 09:53 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: BrianRVanCise]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Excellent breakdown, Brian! Right on target, IMHO.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#383470 - 03/09/08 09:21 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: BrianRVanCise]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Yep, that sums it up.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#383471 - 04/24/08 01:18 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: martialartspeon]
KMStudent Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 5
I´ve trained in both IKMF and KMWW. Krav Maga World Wide is a joke. It´s MMA, not Krav. The ikmf could be doing better, but if you compare both, the IKMF has more quality than KMWW. It´s disapointing to go to KMWW seminars and classes.

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#383472 - 04/24/08 01:26 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: KMStudent]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
How about IKMA with David Kahn?
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#383473 - 04/24/08 05:08 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: martialartspeon]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I would wager that among combat athletes, KM never really HAD a "reputation" that they really gave a crap about.

I would also say that among the general martial arts public, particularly the fringe people, they might be more easily swayed by whatever happens to be the flavor of the month.

That only means that "next month", they will repackage the wine into a new bottle.

S.S.D.D.


-John

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#383474 - 05/04/08 04:53 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: martialartspeon]
GOVINDA Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 12
Pity about all politics and stuff but dont cry about km being basic, muggers or drunks arnt going to wait untill you do complex moves that youve been training for 10 years in a dojo, there gonna smack you in the teeth and if your lucky you get a chance to smack back harder so i favor ckm, does exactly what it says on the tin!!!!!

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#383475 - 05/04/08 09:48 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: GOVINDA]
ruger45 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Germantown Md
I don't think it's losing it's rep. If anything I think it's gaining more rep. At least in the Maryland/DC/Va area. I have men and women from all walks of life in my classes and I think that is a good thing. I think it's three or four schools in a 50mile radius.

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#383476 - 05/04/08 11:42 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: ruger45]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Yeah, now we just need a school down in Fredericksburg, VA and all is good..Ya ever meet or train at KMNova in Springfield/franconia VA?
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#383477 - 05/17/08 10:09 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JasonM]
ruger45 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Germantown Md
Quote:

Yeah, now we just need a school down in Fredericksburg, VA and all is good..Ya ever meet or train at KMNova in Springfield/franconia VA?




No, I have never been to any of the other schools in this area. This summer I plan to get out to a few of them. I think it will be pretty cool to train with a group/instructor from time-to-time.

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#383478 - 05/19/08 09:27 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: ruger45]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Its a shame that people get bad experiences of Martial Arts like this
I teach/practice Ashihara Karate and practice Wado Ryu, and from What I see after reading most of the Krav Maga Books out there (as due to being 'Non-Jewish' I am unable to train at my local Maccabbi), I can't see much difference to Krav Maga and any other Martial Art.

If grading is what you require then I'd recommend the Traditional Martial Arts Route. If quick effective training is all you require then Krav Maga or Kippap is all you need.

I'm actually planning a trip to Israel in 2010 to hopefully find a gym to train at for a few weeks etc

Thanks

Osu
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#383479 - 06/03/08 10:11 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: Dobbersky]
Arentele Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/03/08
Posts: 5
Loc: United States
I agree and disagree. I think someone already said it, KM is a victim of its own success. I've been training for about 9 months now off and on and even in that short of a time I see so many new faces come through the gym where I train.
_________________________
Tae Kwan Do, Ju Jitsu, Muay Thai, and now Krav Maga

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#422623 - 09/30/09 02:48 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: Arentele]
OrZ Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 2
well i am from israel and i am into krav maga for a few years now, as for a few things i saw said here so it goes like this:

1. all soldiers in israel practice KM for a surtain degree, as combatants need to know it at some lever, and commando warriors need to learn it at a bit more advenced level.

2. the km as different to other styles is basicly in the mindset as it doesnt have alot of "New" techniques but it assembles into it's form alot of techniques from other martial arts such as Tkd, Muay Thai, Bjj, Aikido, Karate and so on... but it does change them a bit to synergize with the KM mindeset which is to neutrelize the enemy as fast as possible! krav maga basicly just takes out everything that isn't relevant to killing, immobalizing or taking down you'r enemy.

my coach trained the israeli commando also when he was in the army and he does it only for the love of the martial arts as so do i. we train with our own clothes, without belts or anything and there are techniques which we learn because it is "a must" but he says "DO NOT EVER USE THIS ON A STREET FIGHT" as so... even alot of bjj takedowns and graps. if u take a man to the ground in the street and you start working your way guard -> mount and the rest, his friend will just come and kick u in the head while u are trying to get a lock on this man.

as from what i saw here about krav maga i can tell you that if u are looking for a system that will help u fight IN THE STREET vs weapons and real attackers u have it here, i learned TKD & Judo for a number of years and friends of mine learnd Kung fu and Karate also for several years and i can truly say that the techniques in krav maga are much easier and more intuitive and oriented for a real street fight.

and as about the intensity of the trainings, it is all up to the coach u have, if you aren't satisfied with how the training is going through but you do love the system itself go to train somewhere else as i can say i didnt encounter a system that is so direct and straight to the point, as my trainer tells me all the time, Krav Maga is not a Martial Art! it's Self Defence!
here comes the difference between the beuty of kung fu and the directiveness of KM. The philosophy of life in Aikido and the Km "kill him" style.

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#422629 - 09/30/09 10:05 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: OrZ]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
What reputation did Krav Maga really ever have? Just curious. I've personally never thought highly of it. What's the big deal?

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#422664 - 10/01/09 10:43 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JKogas]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
What's the big deal with any system? It's what the student is interested in that I think makes it a big deal. If your looking for a system with no forms or kata's, no mandatory belt testing for some, then you might think Krav is a big deal. Just like if your into forms and kata's the ancient history of the system etc. you may say Taekwondo is a big deal. What people consider a big deal is up to them. I think Krav is a great system that is battle tested, straight to the point, and very effective. To me that's a big deal, to others maybe it isn't. Whatever your system is, make it a big deal for yourself and keep training.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#423816 - 11/30/09 03:50 PM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: JKogas]
ArizonaKravMaga Offline
ArizonaKravMaga
Newbie

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Phoenix and Verde Valley, Ariz...
Okay, I waited until I had time to read every post before putting in my 2 cents.....

I know this is an old thread, but it is still worth commenting on.

When Krav Maga was founded, it met a need. It answered the need of a small military force which until that time, was practicing KAPAP - basically stick fighting because the British Mandate prevented them from arming themselves. KAPAP evolved in Krav Maga and so on. The Kapap being taught today is not what was taught then....

It is true that Krav in the IDF is primarily a means of getting soldiers to fighting proficiency quickly and is also used to help condition them - in basic training. It is not necessarily true that all units do the "same" Krav Maga. KM is a principle based system. CKM does not, for the most part, fit into those principles and therefore is not really KM per se. It does have some good stuff in it, and it can be used to protect one self, but it is not nor has it ever been used to train any "units". Some spec ops guys attended a (maybe more than one) seminar to determine if it was usable, and determined that as for their units, it was not. Again, this does not mean it is worthless, only that is has successfully followed the path of many KM org's and used very effective marketing which may or may not all be true and which is difficult to verify and/or refute. On another note, KM has evolved. My instructor, Moshe Katz, is the highest ranked student of Itay Gil. Google Mr. Gil's name and you will find many references to his name, the most popular of which is his being the lead instructor to the guys on the Human Weapon episode. Prior to his television career (LOL) he served in the Paratrooper Recon, and later as a KM instructor to his unit. After his service he served in YAMAM and after 3 years spent the rest of his career as both an operator and lead tactics instructor. He currently trains, Duvdevan as a sr. instructor. He works with the Israeli Prison Service. He even trained the security detail for the Israeli President a few years back. You name it, if someone needs high speed training which works, they call Itay Gil - including, but not limited to, the teams wishing updated training after the massacre at Mumbai.

Yes, what we do is different than other Krav Maga orgs. Yes we have belts. Yes we want to see how people respond under pressure. Yes we expect them to attend class, train hard and prepare for the next level. However, Israeli Krav International focuses on the science of the fight in more than just how we word things. Our skills/techniques are based on using proper "bio-mechanically correct" [(a phrase first coined by Itay not Moni (Pino) Aizik)] movements which maximize gross motor skills instead of just saying it. Grabbing the muzzle of a gun with 1 hand and trying to redirect it is NOT gross motor skills! Trying to twist someone's arm inward and upward after using a 360 degree block and then "grabbing" it with just that one hand again is NOT gross motor movements. In the eternal words of Dan Inosanto "Knife disarms are incidental if NOT accidental"! We don't disarm a knife wielding attacker. We attack the attacker and sometimes we're lucky and get a bonus - a knife disarm. The goal however is not to take his knife, but to pummel him until the knife is less a threat!

So, has KM lost reputation? Well, with all the internal litigation, the ridiculous claims of lying multi-million dollar fakery, and even the legitimate claims of those who are still teaching exactly what Imi taught with little to no changes to match the modern understanding of combat science.... I'd have to say no. No it has not lost any reputation. It has however, in those circles, lost credibility. It's lost face, if you will. People who were fitness instructors but claiming special forces combat experience..... those who were map laminators claiming to have been YAMAM operators (lochem) and intel officers at the same time (which simply doesn't happen)...... those who talk about the charlatans who snuck in after Imi's death and have tried to take illegitimate titles as grand master this or that..... a student claiming all rights to KM for an entire continent and suing their instructor when he comes to their country and teaches without written consent...... it just goes on and on.

The bottom line.... do the research. Find people who are training high level persons 'right now' and check it out. Get materials from many sources. Don't look at the quality of the production, look at the quality of the application of KM principles and modern combat science. If it meets the scrutiny of those, then train it a while then ask people who do and some who do not know what's coming to "try and prevent my defense to this attack". Show them what you want but don't show all of them what you intend to do. Put on pads and try it full contact some too. Does it work even if the "bad guy" knows what's coming and tries to prevent it from working? Does it work if the "bad guy" doesn't know and is aggressive or skilled in another discipline? Answer all this for yourself. If it works, then it works. If it doesn't search elsewhere.

I get updates from Israel pretty regularly. Sometimes often, sometimes not.... it just depends on if students under Moshe and/or Itay are being injured or killed using a technique. They tried to stay ahead of the curve, but sometimes it's not possible or necessary. This is why what we do differs from ALL other orgs. Nearly all the stuff used by other orgs has failed in the field and has been replaced by our leaders. This isn't to say it never works, but if 1 soldier, prison guard, presidential executive protection agent, YAMAM Lochem, Duvdevan Operator, or civilian student gets hurt the skill he was using gets reviewed and revised or even replaced. I am always growing in Israeli Krav International.

Train Hard, Live Well, Be Safe!!


Edited by ArizonaKravMaga (11/30/09 04:14 PM)
_________________________
"That is the most necessary and difficult thing in krav maga - that I must be so good that I don't have to kill" or in regard to punishing an attacker "Why do you want to break a dead man's bones?" Translated from Imi Lichtenfeld in Cleveland, OH 1984

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#431227 - 12/26/10 08:43 AM Re: Is Krav Maga loosing its reputation? [Re: drmickey]
iamkrav Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/26/10
Posts: 1
Krav Maga around the world is becoming a bit of a joke. People dont do their research and investigation. I am from South Africa and i once fell victim to fakes.

Plain and simple with out talking bad about anyone
Grand Master Haim Gidon of the IKMA Israeli Krav Maga Association is the highest ranked in the world. The IKMA was established By IMI himself and Haim was his chosen successor.

EX- IKMA Black Belts- created their own organisations IKMF- KMWW- KMG. If you are not part of these organisation the i hate to tell you- you are not training in Israeli Krav Maga.

Fakes IKI- CKM- IKMA (international Krav maga association)

IKI in South Africa are a bunch of very confused individuals who seem to think that they are the gods of krav maga... hahaha.

South Africa only has 2 authentic Fully certified instructors 1 of the IKMA and 1 of the IKMF.

I did my research interviewed the correct people- proof is in the pudding- www.fakeselfdefenseinsturctors.com speak to private investigator rob hamoc for the truth.

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