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#382215 - 02/07/08 12:42 PM Martial Arts in the Military?
fileboy2002 Offline

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
I am not sure where to post this so please feel free to move it if you know a better place.

Reading through some threads, I noticed how many people joined the military expecting extensive training in hand-to-hand combat. Several are disappointed they did not get it.

I imagine most military recruits do get some HTH training, but I would not expect it to be very extensive. I cannot imagine that, in our high-tech, high-firepower age, training expert HTH fighters would be a major military priority. Where did people ever get the idea the military produced great martial artists?

#382216 - 02/07/08 12:49 PM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: fileboy2002]
hunterkell Offline

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
"Delta Force"

Starring Chuck Norris
Remembering 3655K

Nothing is impossible for the person that doesn't have to do it.

#382217 - 02/07/08 12:49 PM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: hunterkell]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#382218 - 02/07/08 12:52 PM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: MattJ]
Bushi_no_ki Offline

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1669
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Actually, fileboy, when conduting MOUT operations, H2H is a major priority. Most of it has to do with keeping your weapon when the enemy tries to grab it. CQC will always have a place in military doctrine.

#382219 - 02/07/08 01:34 PM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4065
Loc: Limbo
The Marine Corp is the only branch with a solid H2H system in place. The Army touches on it in various stages of your training but unless you go into an MOS that it will actively be useful youíre not going to see it often. The Navy on the other hand, we it sucks. There is NO H2H in boot camp any more; there were several years ago but no more. When i went through Master at Arms "A" school we had about a week were we covered 5 control techniques and a couple of weapon retention was a complete joke and the instructor hated me. Special forces and our new Individual Augmentation forces among a select few others get some training but it's not as in depth as it could be. Most are encouraged to seek out side sources for training. The personal protective services school i'm trying to get mostly deals with evasive tactics, removing the target from the threat. They are basically the military version of the Secret Service. Bushi it's open to all branches too so it's something you might want to look at in the future if thatís something your interested in, i believe the E-5 and above requirement is military wide not just Navy. As for the Air Force...couldn't tell you. With the exception of Para Rescue i think they are pretty much in the same boat as the Navy. I don't recall seeing any of their MPs going through much H2H during their training and our schools are in the same building.

Today it is more practical to focus on building clearings, convoys and other weapons tactics vise H2H as youíre not going to use it that often. You are rarely ever close enough to lay hands on someone. I do feel that all military police should receive more training due to the fact that i've seen several situations were we have had to physically take people down and found many of the people who work with and for me who were less than able to handle the situation.

I think most get the idea that the military produces good martial artists because of movies for one and the perceived notion that they are interested in developing a well rounded "fighting machine". Most see the military as an area of strict discipline where people learn to do as they are told without question and youíre the consummate professional trained to excel in all aspects of your job, including H2H. The problem is, at least in the Navy, those days are over. The Navy these days is more of a job corp than a military in most aspects.
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

#382220 - 02/07/08 10:58 PM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: laf7773]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
While the H2H is a great deal more accessable than it used to be, the very philosophy of training a large group of people in a very short amount of time will yieled predictable if not disappointing results.

The soldiers or marines who are exceptionally proficient in H2H are that way due to their own individual work ethic and focus way more than the magic of their system. Those guys would be formidable no matter what they trained in. Same goes for pretty much every mainstream military program out there (including KM).

#382221 - 02/08/08 12:01 AM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: Fletch1]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I think the army should do what the marines have done.

when i went to Army basic back in 1997, there was a tragedy during hand to hand...They put all of us in the field, aboupt 200 people and were teaching a hip throw. Well, i told my buddy this is so unsafe because we have 200 some guys and like 6-7 drills..sure enough a guy got thrown on his head and was parallized.
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

#382222 - 02/08/08 02:22 AM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: JasonM]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4065
Loc: Limbo
All branches should implement a similar plan as the Marine Corp. We all have troops on the ground now, some obviously more than others though.
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

#382223 - 02/08/08 12:44 PM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: laf7773]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
it seems to me that this discussion has come up a dozen times in the past 5 years. very few military people really need hand to hand. basically, if you are in a situation where you need hand to hand in the military, somebody has [censored] up.

its always a good thing to giver people some h2h, and it helps drive the warrior spirit, was well as preparing them for the very possible potential situation of a [censored] up, but the people how need it in depth are a very small group - basically special forces/recon/anti-terror, protective services and military police. given the nature of finite training resources and time, focus should be on what individual military personel need.

#382224 - 02/08/08 06:13 PM Re: Martial Arts in the Military? [Re: globetrotter]
Bushi_no_ki Offline

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1669
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
I've stated in past threads that I have issues with the way MAC is taught, and I still do to some extent. But, the system has been evolving, specifically to focus on the needs of different units. A light unit, or SF Team will need a different focus than a Mech Unit, which has different needs than a support unit. So, as MAC evolves it is being geared toward having a different curriculum for different units.

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