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#381561 - 02/04/08 06:40 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Cord]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I remember Mir beating Tank Abbot the exact same way. After the fight Abbot said he didnt want to lose like that, but also, he wouldn't want to win like that either

The question of UFC being 'realistic' is a retarded one- its a real fight, plain and simple.

Want to know what would happen bare knuckle/no rules? Lesnar breaks his hand during the GNP, then Mir cranks the ankle hard and fast, breaking the ankle, instead of measured pressure for a tapout. Mir goes to hospital for cuts and concussion, Lesnar loses use of at least 2 limbs for 6 weeks minimum.
No one 'wins' a fight outside of a sporting environment.

Lets hope that this builds Mir's confidence and motivates him to recapture some of his former glory.




I thought it was a kneebar? Anyway, Lesnar goes away with a broken leg and hand.

Lesnar was physically dominant,but his punches were relatively weak compared to his size. Improper punching(more like flailing), lack of technical ability, etc... The only thing that saved Lessnar from losing sooner was his physical sive.

Hey Dana, What happened to your boy you built up so much? You are an idiot!!

Chemo,

Are there any threads on here where you are not bitching and whining? Could you point me to them??
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#381562 - 02/04/08 10:19 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: BrianS]
MattyChi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
Yea, for how huge lesnar is, his punches did not seem to be delivering a lot of damage. His technique and body control just seemed off. To me he just looked like a huge dude with some wrestling ability with really sloppy quazi-effective ground and pound.

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#381563 - 02/04/08 10:27 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

I really don't see what you mean.




I mean certain strikes are not allowed and thus changed the likely outcome, it's like an extention of other points people have made where they say if you could ....then grapplers would lose a lot of their advantage.

Quote:

no one is claiming that the UFC is a street fight. But it is the closest thing you can get to, in pro sports.





True, but my point/opinion is that had this been a street fight, the outcome would have been different which strikes at the heart of being the most realistic, doesn't it?

Quote:

So, if anything, putting Frank back on his feet didn't really help him, did it?




Except that he was hurt and the time out allowed him to recover and he realized that the ground was his only chance and went on his back on purpose I thought.

The stopage was the right thing to do under the rules, and the outcome was fair, under the rules. I am just looking at the fight overall and seeing something I think is worth exploring.

UFC has taken the fangs out of striking, rightly so. But by doing so it gives an advantage to some grappling techniques, to me it looked like Mir was able to submit BL because he was somewhat caged by the striking rules, while the grappling techniques are not caged.

Now in reality you can go to the brink with a submisson and stop, it's slower and more methodical then striking and thats really the way the sport needs to be, but I think this fight exposed that there is a lean if you will, to the grappling and a hanicapping of the striking.

Matt you said it shows that skill overcomes size and strength, I contend it didn't really, BL was clearly overwhelming Mir, and if hadn't been on a mat with a ref, it would have been a quick end to Mir, even with BL, caveman like skill.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#381564 - 02/04/08 10:34 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: BrianS]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

The only thing that saved Lessnar from losing sooner was his physical sive.





I would say the only thing that saved Mir was BL's sloppyness. He was doing a nice job of catching punches with his face for a while there.

Quote:

Chemo,

Are there any threads on here where you are not bitching and whining? Could you point me to them??




Ease up on the White Lighting there partner.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#381565 - 02/04/08 11:04 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Kimo2007]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I would say the only thing that saved Mir was BL's sloppyness. He was doing a nice job of catching punches with his face for a while there.





BL threw a lot of punches that connected. I didn't see any of them that had any power besides one or two hammerfists.

Quote:

Ease up on the White Lighting there partner.




NEVER!!!!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#381566 - 02/04/08 11:07 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Kimo2007]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I mean certain strikes are not allowed and thus changed the likely outcome, it's like an extention of other points people have made where they say if you could ....then grapplers would lose a lot of their advantage.






I use to argue that point as well, but I think I was wrong. I don't believe the outcome would change at all if both were given the ability to do the same thing.

Quote:

True, but my point/opinion is that had this been a street fight, the outcome would have been different which strikes at the heart of being the most realistic, doesn't it?





Wrong, two demerits for you.

Quote:

Matt you said it shows that skill overcomes size and strength, I contend it didn't really, BL was clearly overwhelming Mir, and if hadn't been on a mat with a ref, it would have been a quick end to Mir, even with BL, caveman like skill.




I didn't see where Mir was ever hurt. Same outcome on the str33t IMO.

Chemo2007 is a crazy ninja!!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#381567 - 02/04/08 11:10 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Kimo2007]
MattyChi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 177
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
Quote:


UFC has taken the fangs out of striking, rightly so. But by doing so it gives an advantage to some grappling techniques, to me it looked like Mir was able to submit BL because he was somewhat caged by the striking rules, while the grappling techniques are not caged.





How has disallowing blows to the back of the head taken the fangs out of striking? This statement baffles me. This has been mentioned several times, but boxing doesn't allow blows to the back of the head and boxing is a striking only sport? Boxing doesn't even allow elbows?

Also, after the temporary stoppage they pretty much reverted back to the same exact position, I think Mir actually took some worse shots after they ended back up on the ground again. I feel if there wasn't the temporary stoppage Mir would have worked his way out of the position anyway.

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#381568 - 02/04/08 11:48 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: BrianS]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

I use to argue that point as well, but I think I was wrong. I don't believe the outcome would change at all if both were given the ability to do the same thing.





I really don't buy that at all, each skill set is different. So lets try this, they can have a grappling match, then a striking match, we score them on both and if they are tied, no holds barred as a rubber match!


Quote:

Wrong, two demerits for you.





See white lighting post above.

Quote:

I didn't see where Mir was ever hurt.




How about when BL was dribbling his head like Marcus Hayes...(PM me if you need to know who Marcus Hayes is

Quote:

Chemo2007 is a crazy ninja!!!




Master Farley taught me well...Brianson.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#381569 - 02/04/08 11:55 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: MattyChi]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

How has disallowing blows to the back of the head taken the fangs out of striking? This statement baffles me




Thats only one rule of many.

Quote:

but boxing doesn't allow blows to the back of the head and boxing is a striking only sport?




Now you are baffling me, what does bringing up the ruleset of another sport have to do with this match? I am not advocating changing the rules, safety far out weighs everything else. I am just pondering how the rules are in conflict with the correct outcome of a sport fight.

Quote:

Also, after the temporary stoppage they pretty much reverted back to the same exact position




Maybe you should watch the fight. After the stoppage they were stood up it was a few seconds before they returned to the mat, and they returned because Mir chose too.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#381570 - 02/05/08 12:34 AM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Kimo2007]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Quote:

I really don't see what you mean.




I mean certain strikes are not allowed and thus changed the likely outcome, it's like an extention of other points people have made where they say if you could ....then grapplers would lose a lot of their advantage.




No they wouldnt, because then such strikes would be available to them, a nd they would just use adapt their ground game to deal with, and set up the new range of possibilities. A change in rules never effects just one person in a sporting environment. Again, Pride allow 'stomping' of a grounded oponent, and knees to the head from the ground as well- it doesnt mean that all involved in Pride have just given up grappling in favour of a strike only approach, they just deal with these possibilities within their fight strategies.

Quote:

Matt you said it shows that skill overcomes size and strength, I contend it didn't really, BL was clearly overwhelming Mir, and if hadn't been on a mat with a ref, it would have been a quick end to Mir, even with BL, caveman like skill.




But it was on a mat with a ref. It was a professional fight. You might as well say 'Hatton would have beat Mayweather outside the ring, because he would have smashed a pint glass over his head'

In any fight sport, it is up to the competitor to know the rules, adapt to the rules, and make the rules work for them, or make their fighting style effective within those rules. With the UFC, it is professional, so its a fighters job to do all this. Brock got a great wake up call in this fight, and i am sure that he will focus and train harder at his weaknesses for the future.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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