FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 28 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BUJU, Pilsungkarate, ALF, old1, Leonar
22928 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ronin1966 3
futsaowingchun 2
ergees 2
GojuRyuboy13 2
cxt 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
Yesterday at 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Forum Stats
22928 Members
36 Forums
35584 Topics
432513 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#381551 - 02/04/08 12:48 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: shills11]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

But he did win a fight, Brock isnt versatile enough.........yet and with guys like Mir he has a LOT of experience to catch up on.






I'd say he won a match, maybe this is an example of how MMA is becoming more like boxing, it can firmly say it's a sport more then a fight, and maybe thats a good thing.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

Top
#381552 - 02/04/08 12:52 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Kimo2007]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I remember Mir beating Tank Abbot the exact same way. After the fight Abbot said he didnt want to lose like that, but also, he wouldn't want to win like that either

The question of UFC being 'realistic' is a retarded one- its a real fight, plain and simple.

Want to know what would happen bare knuckle/no rules? Lesnar breaks his hand during the GNP, then Mir cranks the ankle hard and fast, breaking the ankle, instead of measured pressure for a tapout. Mir goes to hospital for cuts and concussion, Lesnar loses use of at least 2 limbs for 6 weeks minimum.
No one 'wins' a fight outside of a sporting environment.

Lets hope that this builds Mir's confidence and motivates him to recapture some of his former glory.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#381553 - 02/04/08 01:37 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Cord]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

The question of UFC being 'realistic' is a retarded one- its a real fight, plain and simple.





Because in real fights someone steps in and makes one guy stop hitting the other in the back of the head, calls time and stands them up?

The issue of realism is an important one because the UFC holds itself up and THE answer to combat sports, so when you see a fight that seems to be have a different outcome then one might expect it raises the question of why is UFC better then wrestling or boxing or any other combat sport?

Sure within it's rule set it's real, but personally watching the fight I think if BL is allowed another level of brutality the fight has a very different outcome.

Quote:

Want to know what would happen bare knuckle/no rules? Lesnar breaks his hand during the GNP, then Mir cranks the ankle hard and fast, breaking the ankle




That is pure speculation on your part and I have a different opinion on what would happened. What is clear, IMO is BL was overwhelming FM right up until the submission and I find the contrast between the fights tenor, and it's outcome interesting and worthy of discussion.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

Top
#381554 - 02/04/08 03:19 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Kimo2007]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Because in real fights someone steps in and makes one guy stop hitting the other in the back of the head, calls time and stands them up?




Well, yeah, kinda. If the fight is in a club, then bouncers will do just that. If its in public then, depending on circumstance, either one of the fighters will be dragged off by friends or kicked in the face by interested parties. Failing that, then any number of concerned members of the public, or the arrival of law enforcement will intervene.
I cant honestly think of more than a very few 'true' one on one violent encounters that i have been in, intervened in or witnessed, and in the period of time that it is a straight forward fistfight, then ther simply is no more complete skillset than being able to strike, clinch and grapple.

Quote:

The issue of realism is an important one because the UFC holds itself up and THE answer to combat sports, so when you see a fight that seems to be have a different outcome then one might expect it raises the question of why is UFC better then wrestling or boxing or any other combat sport?




Because of that very thing. Increase the options, increase the potential for use of strengths, and exploitation of weakness. This makes things unpredictable, and therefore of consistent interest to the spectator.

Quote:

Sure within it's rule set it's real, but personally watching the fight I think if BL is allowed another level of brutality the fight has a very different outcome.




I worked in customer control for 10 years (still do occasionaly), and have worked with some very, very physicaly gifted fighters. Without doubt, the best people I have worked with in regards to dealing with the physical aspect of dealing with violent 'no rules' situations have been from full contact sports environments- namely Judo, Boxing and muay thai.

Spend your time training against skilled people trying to knock you out within a set of rules, you will be much more likely to deal with reckless people not bound by rules.

Quote:

What is clear, IMO is BL was overwhelming FM right up until the submission and I find the contrast between the fights tenor, and it's outcome interesting and worthy of discussion.




This happens all the time in all situations, not just fighting. Humanity is flawed, and it only takes one second to take advantage of a mistake. I have seen a guy being bounced off cars in a street in Cardiff, the guy doing it rammed this chaps head into a car door, the guy bounced funny and fell, and the attacker got caught up in the dudes clothing, fell with him, hit his head on the floor and was KTFO. The guy who was being beaten up got up and ran away.
Life sucks.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#381555 - 02/04/08 04:00 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Cord]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Well, yeah, kinda. If the fight is in a club, then bouncers will do just that.




I didn't want to cut and paste your entire post because I basically agree with most of what you said. Remove all controls and as you pointed out any number of factors come into play.

But I want to focus on this fight, and the UFC as a combat sport. In that case, the sporting rules, the stopage and standing up of the fighters was directly related to the outcome of the fight.

It seems to me BL lost because of rules that prevented him from destroying MIR, which he clearly seemed about to do. But the rules didn't prevent MIR from exploiting BL's mistake.

It doesn't show me the best fighter won, it shows me that a great BJJ guy can defeat even an overwheling physical opponent, under UFC rules.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

Top
#381556 - 02/04/08 04:21 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Kimo2007]
shills11 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Glasgow Scotland
"It doesn't show me the best fighter won, it shows me that a great BJJ guy can defeat even an overwheling physical opponent, under UFC rules."

I do see your point but,

Do you remember the original UFC's? there were far less rules than there is now and what happened then?

A great BJJ guy defeated many overwheling physical opponents. there was no gloves then, you could hit to the groin and the back of the head if i'm correct.

Remeber when Royce Gracie lay under dan Severn for 20 minutes? and then caught him in a triangle choke, what happened if the ref didn't intervein then? Death? brain damage?. I think that would pretty much decide the outcome of a "real fight".
_________________________
Its not about how hard you hit, its about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward

Top
#381557 - 02/04/08 04:52 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: shills11]
shills11 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Glasgow Scotland
Also can you believe there was only officially a 10 pound weight difference?
_________________________
Its not about how hard you hit, its about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward

Top
#381558 - 02/04/08 05:05 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: shills11]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Do you remember the original UFC's?




Yes and I was quite thrilled that a 170LB BJJ fighter was able to beat people the way he did.

But hard to compare, the fighters are in a different league now, even Gracie was made to look bad by (Matt Hughes?)

Maybe there have been some, but I personally have not seen a fight like this one before.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

Top
#381559 - 02/04/08 05:29 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: shills11]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Tim Sylvia Vs. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

I expected Nogueria to win, always enjoyed his technique and have one of his training videos; superb. However I give Tim credit more then ever because he did superb defense to Nogueria's earlier takedowns plus had precision punching. I would say that this is the best Tim Sylvia I have ever seen and a class act at the end.


Frank Mir Vs. Brock Lesnar

I wanted Frank to win however I thought Brock was going to destroy him; I'm glad I was wrong. Brock looked good but he is still very unskilled so give him time. Mir on the other hand survived the barrage and submitted him with good technique; excellent for him. This proves that technique beats strength again. Brock has been training for a 1.5 years and that is a combination of different skill so how much he spent on BJJ is questionable. For me after 3 years on and off I would say I know more then he does and that isn't saying much. Give him time.


Jeremy Horn Vs. Nate Marquardt

Glad Nate won the fight and was cheering for him but I take nothing away from Horn.


Gleison Tibau Vs. Tyson Griffin

I like Tyson and was happy to see his win. I think that he could have put Gleison away a few times but he is one tough kid and had some good takedowns on Tyson. Tyson's stand up and kicking was excellent.


Chris Lytle Vs. Kyle Bradley

Wanted Chris to win and he delivered big time; good for him. Hope to see more of him.


David Heath Vs. Tim Boetsch

Didn't know who was going to win but Tim is a beast. I don't know how many times Joe Rogan said he took the fight on short notice but good for this guy. He didn't look like a kicker but he sure surprised me. Good fight.


There were some other fights not shown but these were.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Top
#381560 - 02/04/08 06:14 PM Re: UFC 81 (possible Spoilers) [Re: Kimo2007]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

But I want to focus on this fight, and the UFC as a combat sport. In that case, the sporting rules, the stopage and standing up of the fighters was directly related to the outcome of the fight.




I really don't see what you mean. Brock did a (what seemed to be unintentional, IMHO) illegal strike to the back of the head. That strike is not legal in boxing, either. Are you surprised that Brock didn't whip out a knife and stab Frank, too? I mean, no one is claiming that the UFC is a street fight. But it is the closest thing you can get to, in pro sports.

Quote:

It seems to me BL lost because of rules that prevented him from destroying MIR, which he clearly seemed about to do. But the rules didn't prevent MIR from exploiting BL's mistake.




So you're saying that Brock was the better striker and take-down artist. OK, not disagreeing. So, if anything, putting Frank back on his feet didn't really help him, did it? Brock would simply bash him or take him back down, right? So rules advantage for Frank - nil. What do you think it is that Brock could have done?

We have already established that Brock could have slammed or suplexed, etc, Frank - but he didn't. Because Frank broke Brock's position, and set up his submission.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Cord, Fletch1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga