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#380788 - 02/05/08 08:15 AM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: paddles]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm not sure I know what a 'pow wow' is but I'm up for it!
I would like to suggest somewhere warm and exotic.... Perhaps the U.S. Virgin Islands?..... Disneyland?..... O.K., I'm up for most anywhere.... I would have to make it an extended weekend for obvious reasons.... Can I bring my batman sleeping blanket?
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#380789 - 02/05/08 12:23 PM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: wiggy]
retsamdloneknurd Offline
Member

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 33
yeah. find a field or a beach somewhere. sit around the campfire sipping beers and swapping stories. practice during the day. macrame classes and drum circles....i don't know what you guys like to do.

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#380790 - 02/06/08 06:03 PM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: retsamdloneknurd]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm curious as to the present day practitioners' feelings on Sanchin with the spearhand.

I am not a fan of it because I have not strengthened my fingers in the hot sands over and over again and will just hurt myself if striking someone like that . Instead, I prefer the closed fist... I still practice the form as Soke shows it on Russ' post but want to know what you guys think.
_________________________
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#380791 - 02/06/08 09:32 PM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: wiggy]
LEATHERNECK1 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 20
Loc: Florida, USA
Carl,
this might be a good time to invest in a new bucket and some sand and get after those tender fingers!Just a thought.
Seriously,I believe that Soke would encourage both fist and spear being practised by those who grew up using fists.I like the changes .We all know that changes occurred over the years as he continually refined and altered what he believed was the best interpretation and technique.I will practice both as I believe he would encourage.It can only enhance my study.
Considering how long Soke taught and how many good practitioners were influenced, try to imagine how many changes he made in his art? I, for one, believe that is ability and willingness to make changes made his offerings the best available.We all benefit from the wide spectrum of techniques and strategies we were exposed to through his teaching.

A TREE THAT WILL NOT BEND CANNOT ENDURE A STRONG WIND.

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#380792 - 02/07/08 02:15 PM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: LEATHERNECK1]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
Excellent point Jim! But the question I was too subtle in asking was what are your thoughts on spearhand and its applications?

I am looking directly at a spearhand and not a ridgehand or knifehand... I can see using a spearhand to the throat but little else... I understand that a spearhand can work its way into a rolled punch or to grab behind the ribs. But as a strike in itself it seems a little less efficient…. Maybe that is the point? To provide a set up for something else?... Doubtful, but I'm willing to entertain any thoughts on this.

Anyone?

Carl
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#380793 - 02/07/08 07:59 PM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: wiggy]
LEATHERNECK1 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 20
Loc: Florida, USA
Carl,
It is really a moot point.I don't see how the type of strike influences the rest of the kata...both are linear thrusts.I am pretty sure all other control points would be the same so you have options at the last possible instant.In terms of practice I like it.Of course, I would prefer in almost every scenario to deliver a fist for maximum effect and to also protect my hands.
I also feel that Soke Murphy would have encouraged black belts that had "grown up" using closed fists in Sanchin to adapt the change as primary, but continue to train both ways.It could only be to our benefit. Just my dos centavos!

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#380794 - 02/08/08 06:16 AM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: wiggy]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Spearhand to throat (CV22) or neck (S9) would work if you are accurate and you do not need conditioning for this. Sand buckets will surely wreck your finger joints though, if you want to use them for anything other than striking. Out of interest why did your founder introduce spearhand to the kata? I have rarely seen any martial arts teacher who sees it as particularly practical over say standard fist, palm or one knuckle fist. I know a White Crane teacher from Singapore, an excellent technician now in his 50's, who tried to break boards with his fingers, which he did, but he broke his fingers in the process...

B.

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#380795 - 02/08/08 07:07 AM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: Barad]
CVV Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
Also can use spearhand to eyes and groin. To just 'touch'is already enough to distract and make opponent loose focus.

I train fingers just by fingertip push-ups. Would never try to break boards with it though. But I have seen demo's where it is done. I think you need to condition more than just fingertip pushups to achieve that.

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#380796 - 02/08/08 10:01 AM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: CVV]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Agreed, eyes are also good. Personally I slap or palm to the groin, although it looks a bit like palm up spearhand in the kata. I practice a lot of distraction to the eyes but it usually take the form of a slap or flicking fingers rather than a straight thrust but each to his own...

B.

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#380797 - 02/08/08 11:47 AM Re: Discussion of Isshinshorinji Ryu [Re: LEATHERNECK1]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
As you know Goju-ryu uses close and open hand techinques in Sanchin. I beleive the use of that spearhand technique is dual purpose some people only look at it as a strike. The openhand motion near the end of Goju's Sanchin I see various use for it. It is a in and the out and away move. In that it could be a hold like the fish hook or collar choke. Of course the obvious ribs, eye and throat strikes.

I also see the spearhand motion as a Okinawan or body based strike along with body conditioning. The Uechi version of all open hand Sanchin is based on pressure point striking and as mentioned above more easier conditioned and performed as a Asian in that their fingers are not as staggered as ours. I've noticed that some Asian (and some others) fingers can be held to make a solid 3 to 4 point strike making for a more powerful strike.

I've seen some that can and could break 2-3" of wood if your hand was configured that way. This is not a racist or pro Asian statement just a near fact. I have long big staggered fingers so in application against harder surfaces I use extended knuckle strikes.


Edited by Neko456 (02/08/08 11:52 AM)
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