Geez Ed, don't have a cow... my mistake.

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do you think it brings us closer to understanding it thru 'ki' research from flakes pushing their books, products, seminars and wellnesss clinics?

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Where did I say that?

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it is absolutely beyond me how someone could ignore legitimate genetic research while embracing these fringe studies like the obviously bogus and agenda-based one brought up at the beginning of the thread.

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Maybe they've looked beyond the "obvious", which is the good done by genetics research and looked at the other questions that pop up...

From the link Matt provided...

What are some of the social and ethical issues surrounding human gene therapy?
In large measure, the issues are the same as those faced whenever a powerful new technology is developed. Such technologies can accomplish great good, but they can also result in great harm if applied unwisely.
Gene therapy is currently focused on correcting genetic flaws and curing life-threatening disease, and regulations are in place for conducting these types of studies. But in the future, when the techniques of gene therapy have become simpler and more accessible, society will need to deal with more complex questions.
One such question is related to the possibility of genetically altering human eggs or sperm, the reproductive cells that pass genes on to future generations. (Because reproductive cells are also called germ cells, this type of gene therapy is referred to as germ-line therapy.) Another question is related to the potential for enhancing human capabilities—for example, improving memory and intelligence—by genetic intervention. Although both germ-line gene therapy and genetic enhancement have the potential to produce benefits, possible problems with these procedures worry many scientists. Germ-line gene therapy would forever change the genetic makeup of an individual’s descendants. Thus, the human gene pool would be permanently affected. Although these changes would presumably be for the better, an error in technology or judgment could have far-reaching consequences. The NIH does not approve germ-line gene therapy in humans.
In the case of genetic enhancement, there is concern that such manipulation could become a luxury available only to the rich and powerful. Some also fear that widespread use of this technology could lead to new definitions of “normal” that would exclude individuals who are, for example, of merely average intelligence. And, justly or not, some people associate all genetic manipulation with past abuses of the concept of “eugenics,” or the study of methods of improving genetic qualities through selective breeding.
What is being done to address these social and ethical issues?
Scientists working on the Human Genome Project (HGP), which completed mapping and sequencing all of the genes in humans, recognized that the information gained from this work would have profound implications for individuals, families, and society. The Ethical, Legal, and Social Implications (ELSI) Research Program was established in 1990 as part of the HGP to address these issues. The ELSI Research Program fosters basic and applied research on the ethical, legal, and social implications of genetic and genomic research for individuals, families, and communities. The ELSI Research Program sponsors and manages studies and supports workshops, research consortia, and policy conferences on these topics.

I'm sure that "all science is pure" and all "alternatives" are "agenda-driven"... but simply ignoring the bad side of your arguments always leaves the door open for a little deeper look into the actual "help" that science is providing.

If we didn't learn anything else from "Jurassic Park", it was that simply because science "can" do something doesn't mean that it should.(..and yes, I know it was fiction) Those same ethical questions, however, pop up with your simple acceptance of genetic answers to questions that can affect future generations... and not necessarily in a good way.

Matt was surprised that I "hadn't heard of genetic therapy"... simply because it was discussed as "immunotherapy", and since the medical profession didn't have a protocol for my wife, they didn't bother to offer it.

Reading through the link Matt posted caused me to have some serious second thoughts about "gene therapy"... especially when they started the "class warfare" discussion (only the rich will be able to afford it). Like global warming, it's another sales job to pile money on top of money with "the good of man" at it's premise.

Thanks for answering my question... sorry I misinterpreted what you actually said.

I guess I'm the type that thinks putting billions into research and understanding is much better towards the "good of man" than what I've seen billions being spent on in recent years.

maybe if more people started becoming more aware of whats fake and whats real, then we will head in the right direction towards solving real problems? just a thought.


btw, what does everyone think of the study that was presented in the opening of the thread?

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I guess I'm the type that thinks putting billions into research and understanding is much better towards the "good of man" than what I've seen billions being spent on in recent years.

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Well, if you're talking "government money" it's been spent on a lot of selfish programs... but don't just blame one person, blame Congress and the Senate.. and 20 million other people that aren't "entitled" to anything. If you're talking "corporate" money, it's been spent trying to turn a profit... and illegally in lots of cases.

If you're talking about "research money", which is usually "government money" it's been spent on whatever agenda the National Science Foundation happens to be funding at the time. Over the years, I've learned to be skeptical when I hear "for the good of man", or "for the children" coming out of the mouths of anybody puporting to "do good" for society. What that usually means, is Socialism... regardless of the issue.

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maybe if more people started becoming more aware of whats fake and whats real, then we will head in the right direction towards solving real problems? just a thought.

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And maybe if they would stop thinking that "their way" is the only way, a lot of the conflict in life would be resolved. When you drop the agendas and simply deal with the facts of anything, it becomes simpler... and being a master crafter of language doesn't make anybody right... even if they can google-fu a million internet references of "like minded" thinkers.

I think we all want a better world... and we all see it differently. Too bad we don't see things only "one way".

That's why it's better to be happy. You can never ever go wrong with happiness.

BFP
I'd be happy to prove you wrong, but that would technically BE wrong and thus in and of itslef, right.

others
Ki is free and that's good news to me. No expensive radioactive materials, no having tiny particles of gold injected into your blood to destroy cancer cells (don't ask me how it works, It was in NatGeo).
Nope, just get someone to point their finger at you for a while.

Why are we studying this remote possibility?
a)the concept has been around scince antiquity, It's worth a shot considering it's free.
b)as the ending theme from portal states (have at your science, we do what we must because we can)
c) it's a double edged study, a chance for cancer, a chance for ki

wishing and praying are free too. some cultures used to sacrifice one healthy person to save the many sick in order to fullfill their wishful thinking. hey, you work with what you got. and if wishing is the best you can do, then keep doing whatever makes you feel better.


You can enjoy an immunized life while minimizing the thought process necessary which made that possible; and while you are living out your years beyond 35 on science-based borrowed time, it will afford you the luxury of seeking to drink from the secret ways of the ancient fountain of youth.

everyone needs a hobby.

If I were immortal however:
http://hhgproject.org/entries/wowbagger.html

I'd be pretty [censored] after living too long as well

back to the study. so, we found out that the study is based solely on the abilities of this man:

Japanese Ki-master, Kozo Nishino. who developed the Nishino Breathing Method (NBM). http://www.nishinojuku.com/english/e_profile/e_nishi_.html

"born in 1926" so he's about 82.

says he started MA when he was 50. kung fu and aikido.

so that must have been about 1976. less than 9 years later, he obtains Shihan rank in both arts, starts his own school chains and develops his own breathing method.


my question is, are chi/ki powers bestowed upon people or do they have to be learned thru decades of training?

The point of showing the study was not for cancer cures but to show the possibility of "ki". My father died of pancreatic cancer in 2005, lost a 23 yr old brother in-law with two kids to testicular cancer. His mother was a nurse. None of them tried any alternative treatments. My brother in law went to the mayo clinic for his treatment. I've seen the best there is in cancer research from a western point.

In no way would I suggest this "ki" power for treatment. Ed you say all this alternative medicine is for money. Same with western medicine, but worse. Take one pill and then you end up taking three more for the side effects. Stressed don't take care of the stress take a pill.

So Ed, one study you have some issues with because he also sells some books. Nothing wrong with making money. You will go on all day with anyone who will argue with you. I've seen several people on here like bossman, BP, wristtwister, and other's give very well written and detailed replies all in vain. So to just argue over one article seems rather pointless. If this stuff fascinates you so much go prove the Buddhist monks study as a fraud as well. But you found your red meat feast away.

Ed, if I had been a ballet dancer since 1951, and studied 9 years with any kind of martial arts master, I would expect to advance a heck of a lot faster than somebody walking off the street and starting from scratch. I don't think he could have done much better for a teacher than the Doshu, and his Kung Fu master was also well known and respected in Japan... so what's your problem with his gaining Shihan rank? Both arts are all about body mechanics... and I don't know that you have better body mechanics than any ballet dancer I've ever seen.

As for his "breathing method", I suspect that he worked on that all through his ballet training, as well as his martial arts. At 5th Dan in most schools in Japan, a teacher can go out on their own, so your objection of him starting his own chain of schools also puzzles me.

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my question is, are chi/ki powers bestowed upon people or do they have to be learned thru decades of training?

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You're just Pi$$ed that nobody will show you the secret handshake that gives you the ki powers... maybe a visit to Japan to live with the current Doshu, and you might talk somebody into it... but you'd have to drop the "skeptical" attitude...