It's too bad, It's an awesome handshake.
By my own theories being able to control chi may be a talent as well as something you learn over years. Wolfgang Amadeus Motzart was practically born writinf music. Others had to develop it over time. It comes naturally to some. Others have a hard time grasping it

the bottom line question that puts this 'scientific study' in question is the baseline used.

to make it 'more scientific' here are the recommendations:
1. choose a qualified person doing the study as someone not affiliated with the test subject.

2. the baseline was cells in open air vs. cells being affected by someone thought to posess ki energy. this is incomplete. they needed to have someone with no such training as the ki-master also do the same test, then compare that.

3. The pre-assumption that this is ki energy and not thermal energy, brain waves, power of the gods or telekinesis is exclusionary. a real study seeks to eliminate other possibilities. for instance, if a non-ki person did do this test and it was found to have similar results as the ki guy...I'd start going with the thermal interaction of a person's fingers with the cells.
....and cells do change when we introduce an increase of temperature, don't they.


but I'll always get attacked for posing reasonable questions like that. people can't address the questions, so they take it to the direction of trying to discredit the questioner. same ol, same ol.

Ed you'll only get attacked for being narrow minded. You claim to be a critical thinker, which is what I think I'd define as a free thinker. Have you ever done any research into the neurology of a free thinker? Very interesting when you start looking at associative states of thinking. About how true open minded thinkers, which is a term that I prefer over free and critical thinker, can access new neural pathways instead of utilising existing neural pathways and as such responding in a preconditioned manner to new stimulus. It's interesting to see how we can be duped into thinking we are thinking objectively when actually we are accessing the same pre-conditioned neurological patterns that blind faith cult members follow. Its funny that those claiming to be the most objective amongst us are probably, neurologically speaking, more subjective fixed thinkers than the crackpots they target with their so called scepticism.

I know I've mentioned it before, this science groupie thing, but its true. Groupies follow things fanatically and passionately yet usually without understanding. See there is a whole science behind the placebo effect that science is *just* discovering. Non-chi people say that what chi people do is just in their heads. When I hear this argument I tell people to research the statement from the classics that says, "Where the Yi goes the Qi will follow!" in that statement really lies the secret behind oriental medical and martial theory. Really really does.

The mind is a truly wonderful and profoundly powerful thing. As I said groupies cling to ideals, objective/critical/free thinkers approach wisdom objectively...firing up new neurons via new thought patterns and incorporating those new neurons and expanding their perception by building a more expansive and dynamic neural network from which perceive "Reality". Reality itself is an interesting term, both from a Quantum, neurological, metaphysical, philosophical and any other point of view you care to think from. Groupies annoy me really as they drag the good people down in the publics opinion and potential to understand.

I'm beginning, just beginning, to understand the nature of Qi, only just really honestly beginning to understand the possibilities it holds as a concept. To help understand this I've buried myself in both oriental and western thinking. Today in my lesson with Bossman, we were looking through an anatomical book looking at muscle contractions involved in our tai chi movements, we discussed superposition theory, looked at conception and governor vessel energetic pathways, methods of focussing and utilising intent, internal vibrations and their affect on the mind, gravity, biomechanics and web design. All these topics were explored intellectually and practically looking at kicking, kneeing and poking around with Steve's metal knees. We looked at how our mindset directly affects our lives at a cellular level and ripples up to a macro level that is observable to anyone with the perception to see it.

That was just one day in our lives, just over an hour to be precise. Actually we even discussed spirits and how some people might "see" ghosts...as I said previously I'm beginning to see the groupies as the ones with the issues!

really interesting. any thoughts on this scientific study that the thread is about?

not quite.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1193556&rendertype=figure&id=fig1

what I'm talking about is having a non-ki trained person do the equivalent of the test on the left picture.

when I asked the author of this study if he had considered that, as you recall, he replied:

Quote:

---

Thank you very much for your interesting question. When we wrote this paper, we were under the impression that non-practitioner cannot emit Ki. Actually, we have some data to show that this may be the case.

But recently, we have some data to show that even a non-practitioner can emit Ki to a certain degree.

---

so thats perhaps a definite maybe, possibly. In short: no. they did not test that. therefore there is nothing scientific about this study since it doesn't meet a very basic baseline standard.



find out what this technology is based on (is it measuring ki emitted from the user's fingers?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-y3ZNaCqs

Sorry i did not read the whole thread but my Tai chi instructor would teach to cancer patients and his point was that the practice would assist with pain management and loss of appetite while the patient was taking traditional medical treatemnts.

I've got some pretty insane views myself.

To say something isn't scientific is like saying synthetic diamond is not a rock (despite it being created by man, it is still a rock).
Sure some parts have been overlooked, but science is asking a question and finding an answer, getting other people to poke holes or fill them in does not mean that work was not done.
The best out look for this it to be flexible, Now we have less of a reason to say that it doesn't exist, but not nessecarily more of a reason to say it does. For the beleivers side, yes, there are too meny holes to take this study at face value.
for the non beleivers, it was tried and something DID happen.

By my own theories, everyone can emit their internal force, some have "more" of it than others to start with, some have less. It can be "trained". It is a natural force (technically). Our understanding of it has indeed evolved from our early days, in the most basic of forms.

Flynch,

we're aiming at the concept of internal force, as opposed to tai chi solely. Tai Chi has health benefits Physically, as well a theorized internal energy benefits.