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#380473 - 02/02/08 10:54 AM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Vennificus Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 206
Loc: The frozen realms of Kah-Nah-D...
everyone has a right to speak, especially on a public forum, however...curious the topic is.
Warriors and scholars are we all, always looking for ways to either improve ourself, or help others.
I agree, We need something to chat about anyway.
Although as an professionally untrained MAist, My vote might not count.

Invite him, And let us all become that much more enlightened, one way or another.
_________________________
Livestrong Johnnyboxcutter!!

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#380474 - 02/02/08 12:58 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Vennificus]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
good idea. ok, I sent him a link to this thread and mentioned others may have questions for him.


also, he has provided this info, for those interested:
Quote:


What is the Nishino Breathing Method?

The Nishino Breathing Method (NBM) was developed by a Japanese Ki-master, Kozo Nishino [see his books in the attached reference list]. He first studied medicine, and then studied ballet choreography at the Metropolitan Opera Ballet School in New York. After many successful years as the director and choreographer of the Nishino Ballet School in Japan, he decided to search for the secret of the Japanese martial art called Aikido at the age of 50. He quickly became a 7th degree black belt. Combining all of his experiences, namely, western medicine, western ballet and Japanese martial arts, he developed NBM and taught it to more than 10,000 students in Japan how to enhance their level of Ki-energy and improve the skill of communication.

Many professionals who learned how to enhance the level of Ki-energy through NBM became successful in their own fields. They are renowned musicians, singers, dancers, actors, athletes, artists, CEOs of many world class companies (Sony, Honda, NEC etc), university professors and hospital doctors. Many of them physically and spiritually maintained the vitality of youth, and are still working as front runners in their respective fields at the ages of 70 or even 80.

The most obvious benefit for the students has been that they all became physically and mentally youthful and healthy. Many Japanese couples experienced that their marriage relationship was much improved through the practice. Although Nishino did not treat patients or offer healing to those who were suffering from illnesses, many of his students have experienced that their physical problems were improved through their practice of NBM.

Books Written by Master Nishino:

Nishino, K: The Breath of Life: Using the Power of Ki for Maximum Vitality. Tokyo, New York, London: Kodansha International; 1997 This book (Price around $23) is out of print, but is available from Amazon.Com when someone wishes to sell; price $70-$150.
Nishino K: Le Souffle de Vie, Utiliser le Pouroir du Ki. Paris: Guy Tredaniel Editeur; 1998.
Nishino K: Il Respiro Della Vita, La massima vitalita dalla forza del Ki, Esercizi di Respirazione facili, effieaci, completamente illustrati. Rome, Italy: Edizioni Mediterranee, Via Flaminia; 1999.
The translation in Turkish will be published soon.
(Information on the School of the Nishino Breathing Method:

http://www.nishinojuku.com )

Scientific Studies on the Nishino Breathing Method.

Both S. Tsuyoshi Ohnishi and Tomoko Ohnishi have studied the NBM since 1997.

(A) S.T. Ohnishi helped the publication on “Physiological Study,” which investigated immune activity and stress level of NBM students [ref 1].

(B) Both of them have conducted “Biomedical Studies” on NBM with the collaboration of other Japanese scientists and Master Nishino since 2000. Already 8 scientific papers were published. They demonstrated that the Ki-energy emitted from the finger of Master Nishino could inhibit the growth of cultured human liver cancer cells [ref 2]. The Ki energy could also protect isolated mitochondria from oxidative injury [ref 3]. Ki may be beneficial in preventing osteoporosis [ref 4]

(B) Both of them wanted to study “Physics Aspects” of NMB. However, Master Nishino was not interested in that type of study. Therefore, they pursued this avenue of research by themselves. So far, they published that “Ki-signals” would be composed of both “energy” and “entropy (information)” [ref. 5]; Ki is essentially a “non-linear” phenomenon [ref. 6]; Ki may be a laser-like radiation from fingers [ref. 7]; Philosophical, psychological, physics and practice aspects Ki was discussed [ref. 8].

All papers can be downloaded for free at the addresses shown below.

(A) Physiological Studies:

Beneficial Effects of the Nishino Breathing Method on the
Immune activity and stress level. J. Altern. Comp. Med. 11: 285-291 (2005)

http://members.aol.com/philabiomed/publication/kimura.pdf

(B) Biomedical Research Papers:

(2) Growth Inhibition of Cultured Human Liver Carcinoma Cells by

Ki-energy (Life-energy): Scientific Evidence for Ki-Effects on Cancer Cells. A scientific study of Ki-effect on cancer cells, Evidence-based Complementary and Alternative Medicine. 2: 378-383 (2005)

http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/2/3/387

(3) Ki-energy (Life-energy) Protects Isolated Rat Liver Mitochondria from Oxidative Injury. Evidence-based Complementary and Alternative Medicine. 3: 475-482 (2006)

http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/3/4/475

(4) Ohnishi ST, Nishino K, Uchiyama K, Ohnishi T, Yamaguchi M: Ki-energy (life-energy) stimulates osteoblastic cells and inhibits the formation of osteoclast-like cells in bone cell culture models. Evid-based Complement Altern Med 4:225-232 (2007)

http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/nem037

(C) Physics-Related Studies:

(5) Ohnishi ST and Ohnishi T: Review: The Nishino Breathing Method and Ki-energy (Life-energy):A Challenge to Traditional Scientific Thinking. Evid-based Compl. Altern. Med., 3:191-200 (2006)

http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/3/2/191

(6) Ohnishi ST: Ki: A key to transform the century of death to the century of life. Evid-based Complement Altern Med (2007)

http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/nem021v1

(7) Ohnishi ST and Ohnishi T: How Far Can Ki-energy Reach? - A Hypothetical Mechanism for the Generation and Transmission of Ki-energy. Evid-based Complement Altern Med (2007)

http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem102v1

(8) Ohnishi ST and Ohnishi T:

(Commentary) Philosophy, psychology, physics and practice of Ki

Evid-based Complement Altern Med (2008)

http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/ nen005v1

These publications can be found either in “PubMed”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

or “Google Seach” http://www.google.com/search?q=%s

(Please type in “ohnishi s t” )





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#380475 - 02/03/08 06:02 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Going back to an earlier statement you made, Ed...
Quote:

the promise of cancer research lies in genetics.





During the three years of my wife's cancer treatment, there was not one mention made of this "fact". While it's well known that there is a genetic proclivity toward having cancer, I would be interested to know what your information on the "genetic cures" is.

Our local hospital has developed a vaccine for a particular type of uterine cancer, but it's a vaccine... not a genetic "cure", so I'm interested to know why you have the idea that "genetics" is going to be the path to curing cancer. Most diseases are cured by medicines, treatments, or vaccines, and it makes me wonder how a "genetic cure" would be applied... "restructured dna" shots to pregnant women?

Just curious...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#380476 - 02/03/08 07:42 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: wristtwister]
Vennificus Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 206
Loc: The frozen realms of Kah-Nah-D...
from what I can gather with cancer, It's not a plague, it's a problem. sections of our genetic code break down but continue to replicate.
wether half of one molecule (held together by 'hydrogen bonding' I might add) is replaced by a benzene ring or the cell evolves to ward off harmful substances like tar or singlight. Our body rejects it and sends more nutrients to the surrounding area in hopes of killing it, the problem is, these cells get nutrients too, which means they replicate more.
You can't cure cancer, It's not some virus or definite protein code, It's our own bodies breaking down from within.
The only way to get rid of it is to either eliminate all the cells that have mutated or by repairing the cell.

After thought into my own theories, It would make sense that energy that is human in nature would fix that which is relatively human.
_________________________
Livestrong Johnnyboxcutter!!

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#380477 - 02/03/08 08:20 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Vennificus]
Vennificus Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 206
Loc: The frozen realms of Kah-Nah-D...
sunlight not singlight. I already have enough problems with the glare from those pop concerts
_________________________
Livestrong Johnnyboxcutter!!

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#380478 - 02/03/08 08:26 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Vennificus]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

It's not a plague, it's a problem.




Well, if it's that simple, we should have already solved it... and three years of them treating a very common type of cancer in my wife tells me otherwise. The "vaccine" results of our local hospital also points in another direction from it being just a "problem".

My wife was "over 44" which seems to be a "breakthrough age" for breast cancer treatment... those under 44 have about a 70% cure rate, those over 44 have a much less cure rate and a different treatment regimen. They also have about 15 different ways to treat that one particular cancer, so if I'm guessing correctly, it's the insurance companies that are driving the "research" into cancer treatment... not the medical profession.

My take on the "cancer treatment" was that the doctors would do anything to her that they would get paid for... even up to and suggesting surgeries, etc. that they knew the insurance company would cover. My original question is still out there... where does the idea that genetic research is going to provide a cure for cancer come from?

Cancer can start anywhere in the body, so are we to assume that everybody has a propensity for developing cancer? Particular types of cancer seem to be genetically connected, but families tend to live in the same environments and do the same things, so how much of that is involved?

Ed made the statement that the key to curing cancer lies in genetics, so I just want to know where that comes from...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#380479 - 02/03/08 09:10 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: wristtwister]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Grady -

Very surprised that you haven't heard of gene therapy research for cancer. It has been ongoing for some time now:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Therapy/gene

Scientific American and Discover magazine have been doing articles as well, for years.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#380480 - 02/03/08 09:44 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
where did I write 'fact'?
where did I write 'cure'?

I said the research shows promise TOWARDS the future of understanding how cancer works (and TOWARDS cure). do you think it brings us closer to understanding it thru 'ki' research from flakes pushing their books, products, seminars and wellnesss clinics?

I'm not the only or first one who has thought about the connection of genetics and cancer:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=genetics+future+cure+cancer

it is absolutely beyond me how someone could ignore legitimate genetic research while embracing these fringe studies like the obviously bogus and agenda-based one brought up at the beginning of the thread.


let's say someone gives you 1 billion dollars...but their only stipulation is that you must give it all to 1 particular field of cancer research. The part you have to decide is which particular field gets it.
Would I give it to a ballet instructor who discovered his 'ki' and salesman talent when 50? no. I'd choose to give it to genetic research. why? it's my opinion it's the particular field which shows the most promise.

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#380481 - 02/03/08 09:50 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: MattJ]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
No problem Matt... I just wondered what Ed meant by the answer to curing cancer being in genetic research. I knew that there were treatments being developed using carrier cells, etc. but they are "treatments", not cures.

I know I'm not a microbiologist, but I don't see feeding a virus to cancer as being a cure. In reading the fact sheet you posted, I see that most of the "gene therapy" is immunotherapy using gene structures and manipulations of the immune system to kill the cancer cells... and, again, they are treatments, not cures.

There have been a lot of SWAG's (Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guess) tried on cancer, and a lot of treatments generated, but there is a difference between finding actual cures and simply generating life-extending treatments. Chemotherapy kills some forms and types of cancer, but it isn't reliable as preventing recurrances... and for the half a million dollars that we spent on my wife, we probably earned her six months of life from all she endured... and it was all choreographed by the medical profession, who do whatever they can to the patients that they will get paid for. If we went back through all her records, she was probably given much more radiation than she needed, and lots of tests, etc. that proved absolutely nothing.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#380482 - 02/03/08 10:14 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: wristtwister]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Grady -

Quote:

No problem Matt... I just wondered what Ed meant by the answer to curing cancer being in genetic research. I knew that there were treatments being developed using carrier cells, etc. but they are "treatments", not cures.




Ed didn't say "cure". He said "research". Big difference.

Quote:

I know I'm not a microbiologist, but I don't see feeding a virus to cancer as being a cure.




Check it out some more. Very promising studies using the Herpes(!) virus to attack cancer cells.

Quote:

In reading the fact sheet you posted, I see that most of the "gene therapy" is immunotherapy using gene structures and manipulations of the immune system to kill the cancer cells... and, again, they are treatments, not cures.




Actually, it IS gene therapy using viral vectors. Again, YOU are the one saying "cure". And if the "treatment" does work, what does it matter? You are splitting hairs.

Quote:

There have been a lot of SWAG's (Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guess) tried on cancer, and a lot of treatments generated, but there is a difference between finding actual cures and simply generating life-extending treatments.




Not disagreeing, but I'm sure the patients will be happy either way.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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