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#380423 - 01/30/08 09:43 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: pathfinder7195]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
the promise of cancer research lies in genetics.

Homepathic treatments are for comforting the patient, not treating the cause. We don't see comforting treatments anymore for Smallpox...why? it's been irradicated. We are on the verge of genetic cure breakthough - when that happens, suddenly alternative treatments will have to find other reasons to get paid to make people feel better - and no doubt they will focus on the short-term pshychological cure for short-term afflictions like stress, mild depression, bereavement, etc.

I wouldn't plan on ancient belief systems to irradicate cancer...my money is on the future of genetic cures and/or perhaps even widepread use of nano-technology in our lifetime.

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#380424 - 01/30/08 11:13 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Vennificus]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

pretty [censored] I'd imagine, almost lost your gonads when you could've just thought them back to health




It's of course not as simple as that.

It's one thing to have someone directing his chi to blast your cancer cells and another for you doing it yourself.

I went through chemotherapy, radiation treatment and surgery myself for my cancer which my doctors told me would have sent me off in 6 months. Well, being told that you have only 6 months to live does make you pay attention. It's been 11 years now.

Though I could circulate my chi since the early 70s when I started my IMA training, I neglected to continue training consistently because of work commitments and when the cancer struck, besides the conventional medical treatment (which has to be done because the malignant cells are so aggressive when full blown that I doubt a low level ability at chi generation would have been any match) I went all out to re-visit my chi training. Whether the training helps or not, there is no way I can say, more likely a combination of both; the conventional medical treatment knocked them off quickly and the chi training stops them from coming back as I believe the training builds up my immune system which is really the frontline defence system of the body. According to the doctors, you are pretty sure they would come back only if there is no relapse for the 3-5 years benchmark.

If a person has no prior training in chi generation to a certain level, learning to do it when the illness strikes is way too late. And getting a chi-master to blast them for you is, in my own present state of knowledge and training, not a viable option as the nature of cancer is that the ba$tard travels all over the body and gets into every nook and corner. No way a chi-master can sought them all out and even if you can kill 99.99% of them, all you need is just ONE cell to escape the massacre to start the war again.

The nature of chi-generation at a certain level of competence is that you can consciously and at will direct it to all parts of the body selectively in turn or just project it generally to the whole body as a whole, whether in the form of a overall wave-like motion or make it into a specific point projection. (What Nishima did in that cell-culture experiment was a specific point projection)

What exactly happens technically in terms of a physiological response when you generate chi in your own body that will be of any health benefits, I obviously cannot now say. What I can say at this moment is that any concentration of chi in any part of the body also brings with it a concentration of blood flow to that part of the body and therefore oxygen and nutrients to the cells (which is why old people find chi practice helps with aging problems) I've always used penile erection (which is basically due to a sudden surge of blood to the area during sexual arousal) as an illustration. The same thing happens to all parts of the body when you do general chi circulation. Try this. Pull your lower eye lid down (like when a doctor wants to see if you are anaemic) to expose the area below your eye-ball. As you breathe out imagine sending blood to that area. You will notice a sudden and noticeable reddening.

Chi projection for IMA training is another matter and definitely a more involved system of study and self-research because when you have reach a certain level, no one can help you and you have to chart a course for yourself, which is why you find that different high level masters are good at certain things and show peculiar abilities; and there seems to be no consistency of methodology and peer concensus; it has to be when most people you meet seems to know less than you and high level masters are few and far between and when they do meet, the tendency is to protect one's own knowledge gained over decades of hard work. I would not have taken my chi training seriously for the past 11 years if not for the cancer. Fate? Maybe, as Shakespeare said, 'there is a tide in the affairs of men.....'
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#380425 - 01/30/08 11:26 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Vennificus]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

pretty [censored] I'd imagine, almost lost your gonads when you could've just thought them back to health




Lost one, there was no saving it.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#380426 - 01/30/08 11:27 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Ed_Morris]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

the promise of cancer research lies in genetics.




Yes.

I do agree that for the general population, chi training is way too involved and time-consuming to undertake as a general form of desease cure. It lies more in the preventive areas of general health care, especially in the elderly owing to the many negative side effects of medication.

I do not agree that the 'feel good' factor is the only factor involved here.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#380427 - 01/30/08 11:48 PM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
what data do you base that on? do advanced IMAists live longer? do master Aikidoka not go to hospitals for treatment? do Zendo-ists not have health insurance?

or were you just lighting-up the thread?

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#380428 - 01/31/08 01:12 AM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Ed_Morris]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
I have never in any way discounted the efficacy of conventional medical treatment and advocated chi training as a panacea which I believe even conventional medicine dare not claim. I thought my previous post made that clear.

And as for "advanced IMAists & master Aikidoka" which numbers in the 1000s all over the world and whether they all have chi-training or not is another question, and even if they do, have I any where said that all people who study these arts have extra long lives, and that their training can cure all manner of illnesses and while that is certainly not the case, can conventional medicine claim otherwise?

I do not see this as a battle for medical supremacy in staking claims over curing human medical affictions which are just too complex and diverse for broad brush stroke statements which medical doctors and researchers themselves are loath to make, let alone us on a MA Forum. Whatever we say will be seen in this light by readers of this Forum as none of us are involved in any cutting-edge medical research. Do any of us really understand fully all those technical methodology and resultant data from the 'cancer cell-culture' experiment?

That experiment is of interest to us only because it points to the POSSIBILITY that "chi" maybe a minute form of bio-electromagnetic radiation towards the infrared spectrum. And that it APPEARS to have a discernable effect on human malignant cells is only a selected experimental methodology and no one is suggesting that a cure for cancer is found. But it is suggesting however that there seems to exist some form of controlled emission of radiation by a trained individual and that it appears not to penetrate aluminium suggests that it has electromagnetic properties. If any of us wants to dispute that can write in to the scientists involved. I see it as only a very small step towards a better understanding of what I am doing, and with that better understanding I can further chart my own course of training.

I am alive to-day due to conventional medical treatment and I am healthy now may or may not be due to my consistent chi training and I have also no stake in the commercial dissemination of any form of chi training.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#380429 - 01/31/08 02:10 AM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
wow..that almost read like a disclaimer. I was just wondering what you based your earlier comment on.

because this:
Quote:

I do agree that for the general population, chi training is way too involved and time-consuming to undertake as a general form of desease cure.




based on your word choice, makes it sound like you are saying there are a small percent of the population which have the secret and hard-fought knowledge and have developed the power of chi to the point of being able to heal their own disease.


that is what you meant, right? if so, how many do you know of that select few that have shown to do this?

did the subjects they use for the mentioned study only include those with high level chi-based training, no training, or some training?

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#380430 - 01/31/08 02:17 AM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: pathfinder7195]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
in this 'study', the same author proports no-touch ki:
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/nel004v1
Quote:


Another interesting observation at his school is the Taiki-practice (paired Ki-practice). During this practice, Nishino can ‘move’ his students without any physical contact. Many of them run, jump or roll on the floor when they receive his Ki-energy. We studied this and propose that ‘information’ is conveyed through the air between two individuals by Ki-energy. This may be called a five sense-independent, life-to-life communication by Ki. All of our results suggest that we should re-evaluate the Cartesian dualism (separation of mind and body) which has been a fundamental principle of modern science for the past three centuries






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#380431 - 01/31/08 02:36 AM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Ed_Morris]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Kozo Nishino
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4770020228/jsutherlasobj/103-1427892-1256602

http://www.nishinojuku.com/english/e_profile/e_pro_top.html

http://www.nishinojuku.com/english/e_keyword/pop_taiki/e_key_taiki_txt.html


uh-huh. yep, the studies are very scientific and have no affiliation to alternative medicine companies. of course, the stub studies are harmless since they don't mention OTHER things that affect cancer cells which have greater effect. I'm sure rubbing your feet on a carpet and discharging static also affects cancer cells - I'd like to compare that study with this one.

ok. ok. nevermind. I got it out of my system. have a happy thread. think happy thoughts...


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#380432 - 01/31/08 05:58 AM Re: "KI" effects on cancer cells. Scientific study [Re: Ed_Morris]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I've enjoyed this thread guys....has made me giggle!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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