Hello. This is my first post. I was researching the GB20 and was intrested. Me and my cousin have been practicing all day on finding the GB20 point but we have failed. We saw pictures on Google and videos on YouTube but I can't tell how they are hitting it. I've looked at Gavin's GB20 point of the week but it isn't working. May anyone please tell me or send me a detailed picture or high quality video of where to strike the GB20 and how it is striked? Thanks.

I know my name is GB20 Master but I just liked the name because I want to become one.

Hey! I finally get to use this.

what if you just target the back of the head when the opportunity presents itself instead of creating artificial tactics to get there? also, good luck hitting an area smaller than a postage stamp when the opponent is resisting.

forget about points, just work on hitting general areas harder.

With all the help you have locating the point, I'd guess that you probably have it. The greater probability is that you are not striking with good technique. How many years in martial arts do you have and what is your rank?

Next, what would you do if you actually HIT it? Suppose you got a KO for example. Who has coached you on your revival techniques or what would you do with a stage 3 KO which would mean an uncontrolled fall by a person in a complete black out?

I'd say get a teacher and work under supervision only for this point. If you want to work pressure points without supervision, use points for grappling strategies. Then you wouldn't end up with an injured training partner or a medical situation that you couldn't handle.

Now I have no clue who you are, age, skill level or rank. I'm making the opperating assumption that you are young and relatively inexperienced. If that is NOT the case, accept my apology as this may sound disrespectful when in reality, I am trying to be helpful.

Instead of GB 20, try using SP 11 to assist opening the guard. That would be much safer.

If you still want to hit on the head, try St 5 or Mental foramen. Both points have clear easy to find holes in the skull where they are located. Hit St 5 down and in LIGHTLY like on yourself first to see if you can feel the buzz. Mental foramen is hit down and across. Just hit lightly to see if you can get a buzz. Do not hit for a KO without a teacher. If you can't get the buzz on these easier to find points, then the issue is striking technique. Don't hit harder, hit better. It doesn't take much.

I give up. There is a cultural or generation gap. What does this symbol stand for?

did you mean to reply to me?

Quote:

---

How many years in martial arts do you have and what is your rank?

---

187 years and I'm a 36th dan...you?

I think it's irresponsible to advise everyone to "hit better, not harder". if you are talking to a guy 200+ lbs, then sure...but a 105lb woman or teen? they need to focus on learning what general areas and how to hit hard.

hit general areas very hard.


btw, the initial post question is likely a troll drive-by posting.

I wasn't talking to you Ed Sir. I was talking to GB 20 Master except to ask you what the icon meant. I know better than to challenge a senior member of the forum. This forum deals harshly with people who do less. I well know my place. I'll go stand in the corner now in a horse stance with a bo staff balanced across my thighs.

If GB 20 Master is a troll, then I waisted my time constructing a thoughtful reply and only annoyed you if you thought I was challenging you. I would not go there. It just sounded like an incredibly stupid thing to go whacking people on the neck without knowing what he was doing.

Thank you Matt J. I could just post that and nothing further need be said.

post #15981589 you replied to me, ma'am. If you look real close, you'll see the "Re:" on each post. that means who the person making the post has replied to.

can you now see why I thought you were relying to me? in person, we look at the person we are talking to - on a forum, we use the reply feature.

my appologies for not knowing you made a mistake.

I was also wondering your age, rank and skill-level to better address whether or not it's safe to be bopping people in the back of the head.

that does seem obvious now...I think I may have stopped reading before finishing the post.

One time I stuck a firecracker in a bullfrog's ass, it blew his head clean off. What pressure point was that?

Hah. Ok. Thanks Underdog, I'll try SP11. I've watched a few GB20 technique moves on YouTube and I'm pretty sure you have to strike the opposite side of GB20 and after he snaps massage it? Anyway, I knew it how dangerous it was after this http://youtube.com/watch?v=y7vBd8Z47ZE .

brian,
... no I leave you for the mods
They know how to tear someone apart

@ underdog
ST5
When you press in, do you go across toward the jawbone or toward the throat?

Hey, I was just pushing places on the back of my neck and I htink i found the GB20. I wasn't pressing so hard that it'll knock me out but it HURT! Anyway. Thanks everyone.. and what does that Shinquaio thing mean?

GEEEEZZZ!!!! Get an instructor for pete's sake!!!!

This is a prize example of why I don't share PP information with newbies... You could follow the string of dead bodies from their stupidity and failed resucitation attempts.

Oh, I know... let's just chart them straight to the vagus nerve and mainline their damage from the outset... Geeezzz!

I can see them now... right after "finding" one of the star points...

This is the real world, you cannot expect to say 'rez plx' and expect to be brought back to life.

This thread is on the verge of being taken on a "fishing trip".

fishing trip?

Think "Fredo Corleone"

And to everyone saying I'll kill someone if I learn it, It's jsut for my own defense. I'll NEVER start a fight.

No offense, but if you don't know anything about pressure points, you don't know if you'll kill somebody or not... whether on purpose or by accident. Clearly, you don't have any resucitation skills, so if you put somebody into shock or cardiac arrest, how are you going to help them?.. being sorry afterward doesn't cut it.

It really doesn't matter if you start a fight or not either... if you're using pressure points, you are putting people at risk, whether you're just practicing or using them "for real". It's like "playing with a gun"... it's just a matter of time before it goes off, and whoever it kills... I'm sure you'll be really sorry.

As I've said many times... stupid comes in all sizes...

Wonder why full contact martial sports don't have accidental deaths all the time from a random Dim Mak strike.

Quote:

---

Wonder why full contact martial sports don't have accidental deaths all the time from a random Dim Mak strike.

---

C'mon Ed, I've answered that question a dozen times. It isn't "random" striking that effects the problems... it's sequence, correct angle, depth of penetration... all those things you study and practice repeatedly. It's done by people trained to resucitate their victims, and hopefully treat them with correct acupuncture methods.

I just answered that for you when you asked about other methods of training in PP... remember the "training Bob" remarks? Nothing I said there has changed.

Where the misinformation is found is in equating PP specifically to DM... they are different methods using the same points. I can hammer a point in your "liver line" and cause you to collapse in pain without causing you to die... or I can hit the same point in sequence with other things that will cause your liver to fail over the next couple of weeks, or cause a hematoma that will create specific, targeted problems.

Think about it like hitting a ball. A lot of pitchers throw a ball past a hitter. Some hitters "get a piece of it" and hit singles, double, triples or make an out. Then, there are the batters who "figure out the timing, distance, and swing" and hit it out of the park. They're all trying to do the same thing using the same process, but only those that find the "sweet spot" do the damage.

Good PP players can beat you sensless without ever putting you in danger... random attacking of points, however, is like handing a monkey a gun... you never know when, where, or if it's going off... especially if you have no resucitation skills... and just because somebody doesn't kill you by hitting "a point" doesn't make it necessarily safe... there are all kinds of maladies that are caused by random point striking. That's why it's called "training"...

thats not what I'm suggesting at all. you missed it.

given all the full contact sports out there...someone is bound to hit at the exact angle, depth, point, etc

you said yourself if someone doesn't know what they are doing, then it's dangerous. well, many full-contact guys are not trained in DM, so wouldn't they be in the same danger of accidently hitting a point just right? we know that KO's happen, nearly all are caused when the brain is rattled in it's skull. somehow they manage to do that, but miss the DM ?

Quote:

---

you said yourself if someone doesn't know what they are doing, then it's dangerous.

---

Obviously for reasons you refuse to understand... it's not just a matter of "hitting a point" that makes this dangerous, and the random chance of someone striking a pressure point exactly right to cause the kinds of problems that can reliably be done using pressure point training are pretty remote. Again, DM and "pressure points" aren't necessarily the same thing. Yes, they do use the same locations... sometimes even the same nerve-connective tissue-blood vessel areas, but they are not the same fight science. Selecting specific points and continually striking them, however, raises the opportunity for problems by a large margin.

Field hockey and baseball both use a ball and both throw a ball, but you can hardly equate them as "ballgames"... they are using the same tools, but have a totally different method and result. Just hammering on a point might hurt like hell, and might even do some damage... but the degree of harm goes up exponentially when done correctly using the correct angle and depth of penetration... plus, you totally ignore the "set up" and time factors of DM. The meridians cycle in 2 hour phases, and to make a correct strike, it has to be done when the correct meridian is "on". There are ways to turn them on, but that's a different discussion.

The old saying that "a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while", is more closely akin to your analysis of what goes on here with full contact fighting vs pressure points vs DM. I have no doubt that some where, some time, a "lucky" shot from full contact has caused harm to somebody... but when all the art focuses on is "force violence", it is what it is. Pressure points and DM are both more refined fighting sciences, and require both substantial training and practice with the capacity to resucitate and "short cut" the damage by applying treatment . They are not just "pounding on a point".

If you're not studying DM, stick with the 36 recognized "vital points" and just pound on them as "killing strikes". They're also in the DM book...

ah, my mistake then. I was imagining there was a larger random chance of hitting a DM just right. since the chance is remote, thats probably why we never hear of accidental deaths in DM schools...or even intentional ones. never heard of a DM death ever.

one thing thats strange though...if it's so extreamly remote - why did you seem concerned of someone trying to do DM practice without knowing what they are doing?

couldn't you just advise a noob on a forum to 'hit away' with reasonable certainty their strikes would never meet their Mak?

Hammer away there, Sunshine...

Ok guys stop yelling out me. I went to a dojo today and asked my sensai about pressure points. He said it was too dangerous to learn at my early stage so I'll just wait for a while.

Quote:

---

Ok guys stop yelling out me. I went to a dojo today and asked my sensai about pressure points. He said it was too dangerous to learn at my early stage so I'll just wait for a while.

---

Nobody's "yelling you out". You came to the PP board for advice, and the answers you got didn't suit you, so you "went elsewhere". I'm sure it never occurred to you that you might need some knowledge before attempting to use pressure points. They are "supplemental knowledge" for fighting skills that are fully developed. You need those skills before trying to learn different methods.

Learn a martial art first... then add pressure point training. Several years down the road, you'll understand why.

I had a lot of trouble learning the GB 20 knock out ... I w ill not go into how long ago that was or how old it makes me feel. Try setting it up with a reverse shuto to the lung points on the oposite arm. If you do not know what that means, feel free to contact me at whitetigerschool@lycos.com. Once the set up is done, try hitting the point(LIGHTLY!!!) with a ridge hand rolling up. If you do not follow this, again, contact me.

The gall bladder 20 KO was my very first. I got it from a hammer lock, then just tapped GB 20 and uke was out. He said he felt it all the way down his leg. I shall try setting it up the way you suggest with lung on the opposite arm.

The one that for no particular reason, that I'd like to be able to get, is the GB 13/14/15 with a twisting palm. Some people can get that one every time. I've only gotten it a few times.Some people call it the televangelist KO. It has limited fight value but it looks cool. I'll listen to whatever suggestions you have to get that one correctly.

yeah i agree with morris, just focus on hitting general areas really hard