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#379924 - 01/28/08 12:04 AM Re: Into the West: The search for Traditional Ju Jutsu [Re: Prizewriter]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I think there are a few reason why Koryu Jujutsu styles aren't popular in the west:

1. Koryu styles are very much linked to tradional Japanese culture, for that reason some consider it very hard/impossible to authentically teach Koryu outside of Japan.

2. Some Koryu have very large leraning curves. Daito Ryu is one of these. The practioner has to unlearn old movement and work from the bottom up. For this reason, Koryu takes time and extreme dedication to learn.

3. It's hard to find enough interested people in one area. Generally they are spread out. Like it or not most people like the quick and easy route and Koryu just don't make room for these kind of people. For this reason, it's hard to keep all but the most dedicated students coming. This of course wouldn't matter of course if there wasnt the problem of funding the study (i.e. costs for space, equipment etc.).

4. (this is the one that might get me in trouble, but oh well.) Many Koryu exist locked in particular moment in history. This is a blessing and a curse. Although the techniques theoritically remain unaltered from thier battlefield/duelling/violent past, they also don't change with the times. So although you could conceivably use the techniques against a modern attack, it takes a lot longer to get to this stage than it does in many other, more modern arts.

--Chris
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"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
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#379925 - 01/28/08 08:22 AM Re: Into the West: The search for Traditional Ju Jutsu [Re: Ames]
NewJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Midlands, UK
Quote:


3. It's hard to find enough interested people in one area. Generally they are spread out. Like it or not most people like the quick and easy route and Koryu just don't make room for these kind of people.




I have trained in aiki jutsu for a number of years and your no.3 point is something that I definitely agree with. Traditional JJJ just isn's sexy or easy! I am purely speaking from my own experience but the Sports Centre where I train is full of kickboxing classes, 30th Dan karate people, BJJ... all seemingly much more 'glamorous' than JJJ. Plus we find it hard retaining students because they come expecting UFC yet expect it not to hurt!

I tried WJJF a couple of times and, with all respect to them, they have absolutely no resistance training whatsoever. I know Health & Safety is very important but literally you are not allowed to throw someone in case you hurt them; you sort of lift them up and place them down gently on the mat.... Waste of time if you want to get conditioned or actually have some semblance of reality.

Each to his own at the end of the day; I love my aiki jutsu because I'm interested in ancient Japanese history, the body mechanics and kuzushi of the fighting techniques that apply just as much now as hundreds of years ago... plus I never intend to step into an octagon or get a new belt every two months. I think we just have to accept that many places are reverting to the good ol' tried and tested 'Western' techniques of boxing and wrestling - great for SD and MMA, not so good for the Eastern fans.

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#379926 - 01/28/08 08:42 AM Re: Into the West: The search for Traditional Ju J [Re: JAMJTX]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by JAMJTX -

Quote:

As Japan first began to emerge from thier isolation and moved towards westernization, there was also a move to "civilize" and martial arts had fallen out of favor. By the time Jigaro Kano, the Judo founder, began his Jujutsu training, Jujutsu was nearly extinct. He had a very difficult time findng a teacher and had even been advised to forget about Jujutsu. So this is in 1870's Japan that Jujutsu was nearly gone. There were only a few schools, except of course for what was being done in the military and police depts.




Fascinating, Jim. I was not aware of that.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#379927 - 03/08/08 03:14 PM Re: Into the West: The search for Traditional Ju J [Re: JAMJTX]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:



As Japan first began to emerge from thier isolation and moved towards westernization, there was also a move to "civilize" and martial arts had fallen out of favor. By the time Jigaro Kano, the Judo founder, began his Jujutsu training, Jujutsu was nearly extinct. He had a very difficult time findng a teacher and had even been advised to forget about Jujutsu. So this is in 1870's Japan that Jujutsu was nearly gone. There were only a few schools, except of course for what was being done in the military and police depts.







I suppose written history is always being debated.
I think that for some reason, be it political or what ever, Kano didint seek out people such as Mataemon Tanabe. There also seems to be quite a few healthy Japanese Jujitsu Lineage's still around at that time. Which would seem to have been kept going to the present day.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (03/08/08 03:15 PM)

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