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#379805 - 01/24/08 07:03 AM pressure points for grappling
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Here are demonstrations of PP used in grappling. These are NOT in a match or fight context. No one is pretending to be a BJJ master or a world champion. I preface this way because all most of you want to do is destroy other people's attempts to contribute without attempting to understand the meat of the ideas presented. That was how the Stutely thread went astray.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hw3j0YtW3o&NR=1

This is DEMONSTRATION in ISOLATION so that the points can be shown. The student would practice the techniques shown in isolation and acquire some facility with them and then integrate them into his grappling.

This particular forum has become mean spirited and not a safe learning space for people who actually WANT to learn about this content.

OK I'm ready. Here come the insults: drug addict and all the other things I have been called in the past.



Edited by underdog (01/24/08 07:08 AM)
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#379806 - 01/24/08 09:36 AM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: underdog]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Underdog:

watched the video. I don't know anything about PP's OR grappling and can't find that chart that Gavin put up ages ago here. Can you illuminate me...the vid went too fast..can you point out which points were used? As a karate noob, I could only understand the video through a 'vectoring force' paradigm.

thanks

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#379807 - 01/24/08 02:48 PM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: harlan]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Harlan, if you need a PP map, the third thread in the index for this forum has PP maps on line. If you aren't familiar with them at all, and you log on before this weekend, you can see a clip I made about a year ago here http://kyusho.com/clip.htm. This is easy to follow because I show exactly what I am going to hit in a completely staged KO with a nonresisting opponent so that everything is visible, including striking on the camera side. Nothing is hidden. The clip changes every weekend so you need to log on today or Friday.

Talk to you on Kyushospace. Thanks for checking in. If I can be of any help while you check out this new area, please just ask.

As for this clip that I posted, The first clear take-down is scraping the Gb stripe on the lower outside of the leg. The next clear one is pressure to the crest of the pelvis Gb 26. Then Gb 25 is used to turn and hyperextend the back. Ub 54 in the back of the knee is shown. It will buckle the knee. St 9 is shown in a choke. St 11 is shown as a take-down point. It makes most people crunch up and give away their posture making manipulation easier. There seemed to be a cool grab with LI 17 and Gb 21 seizing the shoulder tendon from the rear. This is a favorite seizing technique of mine. There is also a sweep utilizing Sp 6 which is about a hands width above the ankle on the inside of the foot.

I'll have to look at it again. There is probably more. Some, I'll grant, are not that clear because of the logos. It is a promo for a whole video that teaches these techniques. The promo just gives a quick run.
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#379808 - 06/30/08 04:54 PM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: underdog]
whitetigerschool Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 15
Interesting clip. I for one went lookingoutside DKI in part because I felt Tui-te was being neglected in the curriculum. I began studying Jujitsu and eventually got my master grade. I still teach Kata to my students and think that to trully understand Kyusho-jitsu, we have to unlock tui-te. I have taken a number of challenge matches over the years and have humbled more than a few "Grappling Chanpions" who believed pressurepoints were usless in grappling, or useless period. You are right to say that this is in isolation and it gets worked into techniques later. A wise instructor once told me that until you have the basics that will get you out of the average street fight, you have no business learning to do knock outs. The pressure points only make what you already have better. If what you already have is nothing, then there is nothing to build upon and you need to give up martial arts and become an accupunturist.

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#379809 - 02/02/09 07:33 PM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: whitetigerschool]
Landus Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 373
Loc: UK
I was just going to make a post about effectiveness of pressure points in MMA, whilst wearing MMA gloves. I agree with Harlan, the video was too fast for me to learn anything apart from my question looks possible. I'm not too familiar with MMA general rules yet- if pressure points are allowed.

Can anyone shed some light on the application of PPs during grappling, especially in MMA and which sort of points may be to the best effect?

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#379810 - 02/03/09 11:23 AM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: Landus]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Thank you whitetigerschool. It gets frustrating around here trying to impart that pressure points is neither a style or a magic wonder worker. It is an additional layer of understanding that makes your techniques better.

The other point that is also lost is that one practices basics first and then moves up in complexity.

We also started with DKI but I didn't find that there was no emphasis on tuite. Actually on one of my old gis I have a tuite patch that came from a DKI vid on tuite. GM Dillman also used tuite in his humane tactics book and video for L.E. applications.

No matter, we left DKI and our primary instructor is Master Evan Pantazi. I like his approach better because he addresses tuite, take-downs, ground fighting weapons and just a greater range of martial arts generally and not just the dramatic attention getter KOs.

Landus, not meaning to ignore your post but I for one, am not a practitioner of MMA although I like to watch it and I don't know with authority, what is legal. I like watching with other kyusho people as we call out the kyusho techniques as we see them- legal or not. There is, however, someplace on the forum, I'd check the MMA section, a list of the rules. I know it is here someplace, because I have seen it. Try doing a search on it. I don't see how they can forbid them all together because people who do the techniques use pressure points whether they know it or not. Same for tuite. When your instructor says press here it hurts and makes the arm bend better, he is giving you a pressure point, whether he tells you that or not.
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#379811 - 02/03/09 01:22 PM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: underdog]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I have to say, I'm not very impressed by that video. The uke was very complient, and I would like to see him resist. I get what you are saying, underdog, regarding an additional level of training, not a style itself, and I agree. However, most of those techniques required getting into a very difficult position before they were used, especially the one at :23. If someone is going to propose that these are to be used in grappling, I would like to actually see some use during a live exchange. Personally, I would not trust any of those techniques against a skilled grappler, especially in an MMA setting. These seem like they would be good when dealing with a threat before he becomes too agressive though, and I think there is value to that.

Just my two cents.

--Chris
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#379812 - 02/04/09 07:12 PM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: underdog]
Landus Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 373
Loc: UK
I did a bit of a search Underdog and I haven't found any specific rule- even on wikipedia, about not using pressure points. Although it might come under gouging or be related to eye gouging which is forbidden in just about any legal tournament (I hope).

I would like to think that the use of pressure points in a grapple would be extremely effective, especially if the user is at a disadvantage, and I'm sure some of the pressure points would be very unexpected by the opponent.

In a grappling situation, where the neck and head is open for pressure point attack, which ones/how many would be effective considering the opponent will have adrenaline pumping?

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#379813 - 02/05/09 08:32 AM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: Landus]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
There is no doubt that you are better at grappling than I am. I can give you an example of a point that I use and you can try it in some of your techniques and tell me if you find it helps.

On the head and neck, I like the mental foramen, for example. I plug a knuckle in it or the end of my thumb, and I apply pressure that is across to the other towards like the opposite shoulder. (For plain old pain, or a face choke, rub a knuckle in it.) My other fingers are probably stablilzing the head. The maneuver lets me turn uke's head away and back. This helps, for example, if I am below and I need to get my leg around the front of uke's neck. Another application might be to start a turn motion on uke. Where the head goes, the spine goes and that leads the posture. You'll think of a few more. It doesn't do the whole job. It gets you a time frame, or it gives you a bit of a better position that grabbing the head without pressure on the mental foramen, wouldn't give you.
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The older I get, the better I was!

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#379814 - 02/05/09 08:55 PM Re: pressure points for grappling [Re: underdog]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Using pressure points in an mma fight is like shooting someone with a .25 caliber. If they find out about they are gonna get really mad.
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