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#377926 - 03/27/08 08:55 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: RazorFoot]
Huhmasta Offline
Got sent to the corn field
Member

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 31
Dude, I totally agree with you. You have points that actually make sense compared to other people who can't really talk with no experience.

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#377927 - 03/28/08 11:22 AM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Huhmasta]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Huhmasta, your post confuses me. First you start by saying people should stop bashing other martial arts. Then you go on to say that TKD has many techniques that are not shown as in competition they would be dangerous. But then you go on, in my opinion, bash WTF TKD by saying that ITF has it right.

Using your own philosophy, WTF has many things that can only be seen if you train it as the sport side cannot show it. There are countless of WTF schools that train both feet and hands and much more. You are basing this information solely on ITF sport which is totally unfair. I have seen WTF and ITF sparring and even within their own systems I have seen differences. I've seen ITF full out. I've seen ITF touch sparring (which I feel is diluted). WTF is always full out however not with hands to face though I have seen some that have. These all come down to the particular school and what is accepted.

I just want to point out that there is no better TKD because it is WTF, ITF or anything else. There are just good TKD schools, bad TKD schools and some indifferent.

And I do also agree with much you said in your posts.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#377928 - 03/28/08 01:22 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
Huhmasta Offline
Got sent to the corn field
Member

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 31
Quote:

Huhmasta, your post confuses me. First you start by saying people should stop bashing other martial arts. Then you go on to say that TKD has many techniques that are not shown as in competition they would be dangerous. But then you go on, in my opinion, bash WTF TKD by saying that ITF has it right.

Using your own philosophy, WTF has many things that can only be seen if you train it as the sport side cannot show it. There are countless of WTF schools that train both feet and hands and much more. You are basing this information solely on ITF sport which is totally unfair. I have seen WTF and ITF sparring and even within their own systems I have seen differences. I've seen ITF full out. I've seen ITF touch sparring (which I feel is diluted). WTF is always full out however not with hands to face though I have seen some that have. These all come down to the particular school and what is accepted.

I just want to point out that there is no better TKD because it is WTF, ITF or anything else. There are just good TKD schools, bad TKD schools and some indifferent.

And I do also agree with much you said in your posts.



Thanks for agreeing with me and posting your honest opinions. I'm sorry if you thought I was really insulting WTF. It's just that I don't totally agree with how they do some things. I mean WTF in korea ARE INSANE. They are fast as lightning and they jump like nobody's bussniess.I guess you're right, I am basing too much of what I've SEEN from sparring videos and sport videos. I wish could have the time to do both and experience both sides of TKD so that I could have a wider scope. I guess sport style just gave a bad impression to me. There aren't too many videos and such that show the OTHER side of TKD.


Edited by Huhmasta (03/28/08 01:23 PM)

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#377929 - 03/28/08 01:45 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Huhmasta]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Very true and why in my opinion sport TKD (whether WTF or ITF) has not done TKD justice. People view that as TKD as a whole, no different then the Karate Kid did for Karate. People don't see all that is involved in the training and now perceive that this is how TKD is trained. Why others in other martial arts believe TKD people fight with their hands down. That TKD have no ground skill. That TKD people would have their butts handed to them in a street fight.

A martial art of any kind is only as good as the Instructor and there are a lot of good Instructors out there including TKD. When sparring we are taught to fight with our hands up but when it comes to competition the rules for WTF allow know strikes to the face so keeping your hands up are not as important ... though I don't see why as you can be kicked in the head. I just don't know why people cannot understand this just like the argument against BJJ people or MMA fighters ... like they couldn't be effective in the streets because they train correctly it is only "the rules" that they compete at that changes things and there are no rules on the streets.

Thanks for posting and replying.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#377930 - 03/28/08 02:59 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
And just for FYI purposes,

If you watch various events UFC, ITF, IFL, boxing and others I assure you that many competitors drop the hands for many reasons, baiting, conserve energy, fatigue, habit, under estimating opponents, what ever.

Also contrary to popular belief it is not always a good idea to have your hands up right in front of your face, it should always be dictated by what your opponent is doing and what your plan of attack is, sooner or later they must come down or moved to launch an affective attack. WTF fighters know this and when in douche land, do as the douche landers do, in other wards, WTF fighters know when and how to block and attack with the hands as well as any one and let the circumstances define when it is necessary to bring the hands up.

No one ever knocks boxers for not guarding their legs and middle sections with knee up"s why is that? Because it is not necessary for them to do that that's why! do TKD people go around saying that trained boxers do not know how to block or fight? People are very quick to say things regarding WTF fighters and it mostly comes from other TKD people that do not understand or harbor ill feelings towards the WTF.

Now some will say, we get it we don"t agree with it, and I say, hog poop you don"t get it! I assure you if a WTF fighter were to square off with the person saying this the WTF guy would have his hands up and he would be just as ready and capable for battle with this person.


Edited by von1 (03/28/08 03:17 PM)

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#377931 - 03/28/08 03:06 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I can agree with many of these points.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#377932 - 03/28/08 04:55 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
Huhmasta Offline
Got sent to the corn field
Member

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 31
Thanks for posting guys, alot of what you say makes sense.

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#377933 - 03/28/08 07:45 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:



If you watch various events UFC, ITF, IFL, boxing and others I assure you that many competitors drop the hands for many reasons, baiting, conserve energy, fatigue, habit, under estimating opponents, what ever.




All bad reasons IMO. If it helps, I criticise just as much when I see a boxer or MMA fighter drop their hands. It should simply be a given. Fatigue? Poor preparation for the fight. If you run out of energy to defend yourself then you don't have good enough fitness. Habit? You are not taking your training seriously. Underestimating opponents? You're an idiot lol.

I can remember screaming at my television when Amir Khan, an up and coming British boxer, decided to showboat by dropping his hands around his waist. I watch such things to appreciate skill, and purposefully going against one of the most basic skills is in my opinion a perversion of the sport.

Quote:


Also contrary to popular belief it is not always a good idea to have your hands up right in front of your face, it should always be dictated by what your opponent is doing and what your plan of attack is, sooner or later they must come down or moved to launch an affective attack.




Perhaps, but for me it is very rare that a situation will suggest dropping my hands, can you give an example? When you attack, your hands should remain high. Whether it's a kick or a punch I always practice to keep my hands reasonably stationary guarding my head. Please explain in more detail.

Quote:


No one ever knocks boxers for not guarding their legs and middle sections with knee up"s why is that? Because it is not necessary for them to do that that's why! do TKD people go around saying that trained boxers do not know how to block or fight? People are very quick to say things regarding WTF fighters and it mostly comes from other TKD people that do not understand or harbor ill feelings towards the WTF.




I agree with most of that, and I don't wish to single out WTF fighters, because frankly I see it all the time in ITF matches, in kickboxing matches etc. When I see it, I call it!

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#377934 - 03/28/08 08:27 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Supremor]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260

quote

Perhaps, but for me it is very rare that a situation will suggest dropping my hands, can you give an example? When you attack, your hands should remain high. Whether it's a kick or a punch I always practice to keep my hands reasonably stationary guarding my head. Please explain in more detail.

end quote


Not argueing with much of your responce to my posting alot of what you say is true it all depends on the situation.


One example out of many, not talking tournament.


Opponent delivers front leg side kick, drop hand, tightly secure the kicking leg with the same arm ,step behind the supporting leg and drive the attacker to the ground.

or
in the case of applying many SD techniques.

or

in the delivery of some kicks, in this case for certain kicks dropping the hands maximizes power and your offence becomes your defence, example jumping snap kick to face. Yes one can deliver this kick and maintain the hands high but dropping them near the point of impact will maximize power and once you have committed to this kick you should not be worried about blocking or you have timing issues anyway.

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#377935 - 03/30/08 10:17 AM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Apologies.. I was busy for a while and this thread is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay long.. hard to catch back up!

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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