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#377906 - 03/20/08 01:53 AM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I personally don't see tournaments as being money makers. I don't doubt that some can be, don't get me wrong, but there are quite a few legit tournaments out there. Just because they cost money doesn't mean they are some sort of scam; they cost money to run so somebody has to pay. And this goes for any tournaments whether TKD, Karate, BJJ, Judo, etc.

ITF I think your process of teaching is a good way and most certainly can have its benefits. BUT we both can agree it is not the only way or the best way and many times that comes down to the individuals. I would hate to see somebody get held up even at white belt when they show promising attributes to sparring just because of a belt color. Or to have held up my own Instructor who started at white belt to go on to be a top sparrer for his weight class in his area, then Alberta, then Canada and then going to the worlds held in Japan.

As said earlier, I think as individuals we need to learn at our own pace and not be held up by rules set out by others; and why many schools teach different things. We as individuals need to find the right school with the right teaching styles to help us develop in the right way for ourselves. I think I could have benefited with some of your teachings and blended with my own schools; while others will benefit from my school and while others would benefit from yours.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#377907 - 03/20/08 06:52 AM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


I personally don't see tournaments as being money makers. I don't doubt that some can be, don't get me wrong, but there are quite a few legit tournaments out there. Just because they cost money doesn't mean they are some sort of scam; they cost money to run so somebody has to pay. And this goes for any tournaments whether TKD, Karate, BJJ, Judo, etc.





I agree. In my experience many tournaments are more concerned with breaking even than with making profit. Also, they are so much work for the organisors, especially if they are already instructors, that it makes little sense as a money making tool.

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#377908 - 03/20/08 01:31 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Supremor]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
This may not be the correct thread to post this but I thought this to be a very informative site that covers the forms that most of us train. http://www.natkd.com/tkd_forms.htm

just click on the form you want to see demonstrated.


Edited by von1 (03/20/08 01:39 PM)

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#377909 - 03/20/08 01:45 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Unfortunately the Chang Hon patterns shown are not at all similar to how an ITF practioner would perform them. There is no sine wave, some of the movements are done in slow motion where they shouldn't be and generally the patterns are just performed differently. Not saying it's wrong, but it is certainly not a chang hon pattern.

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#377910 - 03/20/08 02:04 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Supremor]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:


I personally don't see tournaments as being money makers. I don't doubt that some can be, don't get me wrong, but there are quite a few legit tournaments out there. Just because they cost money doesn't mean they are some sort of scam; they cost money to run so somebody has to pay. And this goes for any tournaments whether TKD, Karate, BJJ, Judo, etc.



I agree. In my experience many tournaments are more concerned with breaking even than with making profit. Also, they are so much work for the organisors, especially if they are already instructors, that it makes little sense as a money making tool.




I never meant to imply that tournaments were not good or because the motive is money, that they were not worth it or a scam. Rather my point is that tournaments have beginners competing as that increases opportunity to bring in revenue to off set costs & hopefully make a profit. Giving beginners would are not yet schooled enough can have detremental affects on their overall development if you are trying to produce more well rounded students.

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#377911 - 03/20/08 02:13 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Supremor]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Well this could just be semantics, but they are Chang Hon patterns, but just not performed in the way that they evolved into. The evolution was done by the founder to help insure that we had a distinct look from TKD's roots in Japanese Karate. I would venture a guess that more people do them this way then the 2002 final version.

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#377912 - 03/20/08 02:24 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Ah, now I understand a bit better. I can see your point, and honestly I've been one of those judges looking at 50 yellow belts doing dan-gun, and I can say it wasn't a very pleasant experience!

I have to say though, that in the majority of cases I have seen students come back from tournaments really enthused and ready to work that bit harder. I think they are an excellent way of being able to assess your skills compared to others at your same level- particularly for the colour belts, the black belts it's a bit harder- and usually I think students realise that there are other students just as focused on being good martial artists. And hopefully this encourages a student to work harder in order to become the best he can be at every rank.

Quote:

Giving beginners would are not yet schooled enough can have detremental affects on their overall development if you are trying to produce more well rounded students.




This is a good point, and I have seen it happen a couple of times myself. Also, I think sometimes the competition aspect of TKD can become an end in itself, which I think is detrimental. For me, the desire to train TKD should be intrinsic, not derived from the thrill of winning. However, honestly this thrill is a very large motivator, and for some students it can be very helpful. Basically I'm undecided

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#377913 - 03/20/08 02:27 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


Well this could just be semantics, but they are Chang Hon patterns, but just not performed in the way that they evolved into. The evolution was done by the founder to help insure that we had a distinct look from TKD's roots in Japanese Karate. I would venture a guess that more people do them this way then the 2002 final version.




nono, you are quite right. I meant to say that the pattern was not typical of an ITF pattern- I can appreciate that some Chang Hon practitioners may do it this way.

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#377914 - 03/20/08 06:01 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Supremor]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Why do we always seem to go on about the roots (and often the faults) of TKD being in Karate instead of referring to the evolution of Karate being in TKD?


Edited by trevek (03/20/08 06:02 PM)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#377915 - 03/20/08 10:19 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: trevek]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Hey I never looked at it that way, interesting. However, the title of this thread is TKD losing it's face/popularity. With that in mind, the all important historical development is important to look at & consider. Thus my constant reminding of it, as it has very clearly impacted where we are today. JMHO

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