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#377886 - 03/17/08 02:12 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260

dereck

quote
Competing I think is good and you should do it if you like it. I've always found that competing takes your level higher as you then get a better understanding of what you are doing and what you need to work on. One competition is better then 10+ classes in my opinion.

End quote



Yes this is the attitude of my instructor too. At first I did not see the value but as time when by I did. For me personally, the biggest benefit is learning to manage the stress of it all and those dreaded butterflies/adrenalin. Next comes the personal evaluation aspect as how you stack up against others, and work on what did not go as you would have liked. You learn to modify and disregard many things very quickly and also gain perspective on what competition tools would not be efficient for real application SD or simply modify those techniques so they will work when needed.

You are also right as to the instructors determining as to if a student is ready. I may have been a yellow belt with only two sparring sessions but I was not a child or new to fighting, military back ground and such.

All that aside I am still torn as to weather I should have been put in there as soon as I was.


Edited by von1 (03/17/08 02:14 PM)

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#377887 - 03/17/08 02:14 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Supremor]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Well, quite apart from the tournament aspect, I think you can never be too inexperienced to start sparring. In my first school students were gently introduced to free sparring- allowed to attack more, attacked at a slower speed and so on.




Everyone seems to miss the point. We learn to fight from day 1, with how to make a fist, punch, block, stand etc. Sparring is introduced gradually, through steps, called 3 step, 2 step, 1 step & semi-free.

Quote:

However, I can see your argument as well. As always it depends on how the instructor approaches such things and how he is able to make it both rewarding and safe for his students. It is another demonstration of why I am against more strict standardisation in the ITF- one instructor can make sparring at yellow tag work, another may not want to.



Well again this is not my way, but the founder's way. Please keep in mind that he & I am trying to develop BB that will train over a lifetime in aspects NOT limited to fighting, tournaments or even SD. Is it really too much to ask or demand from a student to forge their body, learn basics & develop techniques that they can later use in their arsenal?

How many learn other subjects by an almost complete immersion?
Drive a car:
study a book, learn the rules of the road, test your eyes etc, practice slowly at 1st, step it up, then put it all together. Sounds like a good plan.......

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#377888 - 03/17/08 02:20 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

dojo
Hummmmmmmmm, was it worth it? I don"t know.





Only you can decide if it is or was worth it. I would say that tournaments exist to make money for the host. The more divisions, the more money. I am only talking about the long term development of the BB student, whom is preceived to be someone who will train over their lifetime. Waiting about a year for 4th gup blue belt to put it all together, in the big picture, doesn't seem like a bad thing. But again, our system is designed to emphasize more than the physical & certainly more than tournament contests.

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#377889 - 03/17/08 02:23 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Supremor]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Nor would I let anyone enter a competition that they were not fully aware of the rules and proceedures for in advance.




Adding in that they have a more fuller range of techniques to avail themselves of AND be able to use them effectively, is probably not a bad thing either. Remember, it is much ahrder to teach an old dog new tricks or break bad habits.

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#377890 - 03/17/08 02:28 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

At white belt sparring is introduced with no contact, to light contact, to full contact. This then allows them to work with everybody no matter what level in class and where they can develop the necessary skills to become better as they progress. Martial arts is about contact and Taekwondo is no different. I see no reason for holding this back until they've invested years into the program as I believe they would be at a disadvantage then. At the white belt level they will have basic skills and they can grow on these while introducing more techniques into their training. But the nice thing is they will already know what being kicked/punched hard is and won't have that to overcome that as I find that is a large variable.




I see your point & we are not really that far apart. We of course have sparring & fighting, as it comes on day 1. However, like you, we emphasize other things 1st & introduce more fighting, as you again do, slowly. We call it forging, developing basics & we spar in steps, 3 step, 2 step, 1 step & semi-free. These steps are done with live opponents. They also practice getting hit early on as well, with forging.

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#377891 - 03/17/08 02:33 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Competing I think is good and you should do it if you like it. I've always found that competing takes your level higher as you then get a better understanding of what you are doing and what you need to work on. One competition is better then 10+ classes in my opinion.




Yes competition can & is a great experience, even if things don't go your way.

I tend to want to produce a student 1st, so when they compete at BB level, they can hold their own. Everything else IMHO (color belts) is just prep time. I decide to prep my students in a way that looks towards the never ending end result.

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#377892 - 03/17/08 02:57 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260

quote
I would say that tournaments exist to make money for the host.


end quote




You know I can not or will not argue that this is the case 80% of the time.






However, I believe that this is not the case regarding my instructor. He has said many times that one must learn to manage those aspects of fighting that hinder ones performance. All the tools and fighting knowledge mean nothing if one is paralyzed or handicapped by fear or adrenaline over load, (jitters)

One can be great in the comfort of their own training and the ones they train with, but every new person you face that is trying to take your head off offers new perspective to your weaknesses and your strengths. There are many great benefits to competition.

P.S. I hate to compete too but love the benefits it offers.

Will admit that even today I find it is nerve racking even after my fair share of competitions. The fear factor never go"s away but I love the fact that I know I can manage the stress of this.

This serves to boost confidence that if ever I need to call upon my training it should be easier because I have used some of it under extreme stress already.

What is really weird is that I find competition to be more stressful than actual SD because actual SD you really do not have time to think much, strange isn"t it.


So sorry UNITY I think I deleted your post with the quote that I lead with.


Edited by von1 (03/17/08 03:03 PM)

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#377893 - 03/17/08 03:27 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Please don't get me wrong. I am not anti-tournament! In fact, i am a big fan of the many benefits that they can have for those who particiapte. At our chool we greatly encourage it. I just think that the tournament has interests that compete & at times, may be counter productive in the OVERALL development of a lifetime BB holder.

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#377894 - 03/17/08 03:34 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


Competing I think is good and you should do it if you like it. I've always found that competing takes your level higher as you then get a better understanding of what you are doing and what you need to work on. One competition is better then 10+ classes in my opinion.




For sure, and I'm certainly not about to stop competing, just do it a bit less often. I think that once you've competed a few times and you have a decent level of proficiency in a martial art, you are able to use your sparring in class much more wisely, so competition becomes more a way of assessing where you are in the grand scheme of things in terms of the narrow aspect of sparring.

Quote:

I do compete in grappling tournaments




Yes, because grappling tournaments far better represent the broader range of the martial art. Almost all the techniques you use in class are allowed in competition, granted some submissions are sometimes disallowed. I also like competing in judo tournaments, although it's a shame that my speciality, groundwork and particularly strangles, don't get a very fair hearing in Judo tournaments. Of course, as I mentioned above, my proficiency in judo is nowhere near my proficiency in TKD, which may be part of the attraction for competing.

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#377895 - 03/17/08 04:23 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
ITFUNITY

Understand and can see an argument that can be made for for your philosophy.

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