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#377776 - 03/10/08 01:24 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
badachagi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 62
Quote:

Absolutely. It is a great dream & 1 that may be helped by some sort of merger. But it really in the end, comes down to you & me, not literally you & me, but students on both sides, ITF, WTF & of course the independents. If we all just worked together, without bickering, we could all grow in a positive direction. I have learned a lot in forums & even the Kukkiwon textbook. So the more we at the bottom share, the better for all. Plus we should set an example for our students & juniors, that hard feelings of the past, don't reflect on us personally, so we should not let other's fights become our own. Nuttin wrong with dreamin!




Wow, that is great that you have a copy of the KKW textbook. I agree that there are many things that could be learned from practicing w/other styles/orgs of TKD. As I have posted previously, at one point during my training I practiced with some individuals who taught me several of the ITF forms, which I must admit are more dynamic and interesting that the KKW forms.

Adding another point to the original topic of this thread (TKD losing it's face), in the KKW schools I have trained in, I have noticed a strong correlation between the emphasis on SD and realistic fighting vs. sport fighting and the relative age of the master/instructor and what "period" he grew up in. In one school I was instructed by a grandmaster who grew up during the 50s/60s, was originally schooled in the Chung Do Kwan, served in the Korean military. While he taught Olympic style sparring, there was a lot of emphasis on more "old school" techniques, incl. a lot of SD and "dirty" fighting. At other schools I've trained at where the masters were either younger Korean masters (i.e. the Yong-in graduate types) or American masters, a lot of the old school SD/fighting techniques were missing. The younger masters would focus more on Olympic sparring, while the American instructors would show a willingness to experiments with things like boxing and Brazilian Ju Jitsu to supplement the SD curriculum.

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#377777 - 03/10/08 01:27 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
Quote:


However, many of the people who were damaged the most are gone so the ones who carry the contempt are doing it for general purpose, that always proves to be counter productive. If it is not for general purpose than there is an agenda and that would worry me to as it should anyone involved in TKD. If standards were strictly enforced it would do a great deal to stop mcdo jo"s.




I don't agree that those who were affected are gone but I agree with minimum standards

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#377778 - 03/10/08 01:47 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: flynch]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

I don't agree that those who were affected are gone but I agree with minimum standards




Correct. This is why having more people understand the history & development of TKD can only help moving forward.

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#377779 - 03/10/08 02:03 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: badachagi]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

[Wow, that is great that you have a copy of the KKW textbook. I agree that there are many things that could be learned from practicing w/other styles/orgs of TKD.




Yes it was actually given to me by a really true GM, when he saw me reaing it so intently during a research session. I was even eager to copy some pages that I found great. He just presented it to me & it is a very valuable source. I am surprised that more Kukki TKD students don't have it.

Quote:

As I have posted previously, at one point during my training I practiced with some individuals who taught me several of the ITF forms, which I must admit are more dynamic and interesting that the KKW forms.





A very high level WTF official has told me the same thing.


Quote:

Adding another point to the original topic of this thread (TKD losing it's face), in the KKW schools I have trained in, I have noticed a strong correlation between the emphasis on SD and realistic fighting vs. sport fighting and the relative age of the master/instructor and what "period" he grew up in. In one school I was instructed by a grandmaster who grew up during the 50s/60s, was originally schooled in the Chung Do Kwan, served in the Korean military. While he taught Olympic style sparring, there was a lot of emphasis on more "old school" techniques, incl. a lot of SD and "dirty" fighting. At other schools I've trained at where the masters were either younger Korean masters (i.e. the Yong-in graduate types) or American masters, a lot of the old school SD/fighting techniques were missing. The younger masters would focus more on Olympic sparring, while the American instructors would show a willingness to experiments with things like boxing and Brazilian Ju Jitsu to supplement the SD curriculum.




Yes, this is an important point. This thread has gone on for 52 pages. I think TKD is loosing face/popularity & that is happening for a number of reasons. It is not limited to any 1 way of doing TKD, ITF, WTF, Chang Hon, Kukki or independents that merely use the umbrella name.
As stated, I think these reasons are many. Among them;
insurance requirements
access to a wider student population, all & types
emphasis on sport by some
parents turning to TKD programs catering to baby sitting/ child rearing help
academic institutions turning out professional instructors
schools & organizations run for income 1st
Note: these trends are not limited to TKD!

Now I keep pointing out the history not to show how great one person or one group/organization was/is, but to show why & how it was developed & that moving from this focus has caused loss of face, even though its popularity has grown. Which BTW is a contributing factor of loosing face.

If one wants to change something, understand the problem 1st! JMHO

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#377780 - 03/10/08 02:23 PM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: MattJ]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Hello.Been busy.
MattJ,back the F off.
There is totaly no need for you come into a post with a tone like that.
Could it not have been done by PM if at all?
Yea, just come barging in like the big man
Reminds of those guys who come in kick people in the head from the crowd.
Zeolot,semantics?Just say it in an unpretentious manner.
If your so intelligent to use those words then you will see that as there are two sides to the argument it would make them 'Zealot' about their views too.
I am Not a UFC fanatic thank you.
Did I acrossthat way?Not purposely.
And im not a history geek ,no.Or a theory geek
More practical.Question everything.
The history im going on is interviews and accounts by people there,footage as close as possible and others.
More people say it was like I believe it was and have been shown than those who sayi t was this or that.
Too honest,I dont think it matters if the did or did not.
I am just as much TKD as anyone on here and train just as hard.
For me,the discussion is over.I wont even be looking at this thread again so have fun with this post.Go for it.

IMO I train as the military TKD did (a the very least in spirit) and had in mind plus the added bonus of getting proper grappling and stand up grappling to work tacticaly ,defensively and offensivly with strikes.
General Choi said to continue after him.Most top TKD I believe respect other styles and ideas and would encourage moving forward with up to date training ideas,tactics and drills.
Im doing that so im as true TKD as anyone.
I am sorry the post went such the way it did and do genuinly apologise for some behavior. Its what happens when passionate veiws collide it seems.
I learnt some things and will be researching more.

Tat-ar loosing face fred (thread)
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

Top
#377781 - 03/10/08 03:22 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: flynch]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
flynch"


I did not say that those affected are gone. What I said was that many that were affected the most are now gone, big difference.

I realize there is still a number of
original authorities left, however many of the originals are now gone or moved on.

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#377782 - 03/10/08 03:37 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
For me I guess as long as the person I train under was directly affected by these actions it will still be in the forefront of my thoughts when I think of TKD. For good or bad.

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#377783 - 03/10/08 04:00 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Actually yes & no. it depends on what you mean by original. As far as founders of the original kwan, the only one that may still be alive, into his 90s is GM Ro Byung Jik. I think he is living in the States. No other kwan founders are alive, except Col. Nam Tae Hi, co-founder of the Oh Do kwan, but this may not be accepted as an original kwan, as it came in 1954, 9 years after the liberation of Korea & 10 years after the 1st 2 opened.

Now 2nd generation leaders are still numerous all around the world. In fact, some are running the Kukkiwon. In addition, many pioneers, who had their lives upset or even ruined, are very much alive. Then there are many 3rd generation like GM Sabree Saleh of Malyasia, who suffered tremndously in both a personal & finacial way, when the SK govt put pressure in 1986, forcing Malyasia to cancel the 5th ITF WCs, later re-scheduled in Greece in 1987.

So there are many, many still around. I have even been said to practice communist TKD, but never suffered for it, like so many have.

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#377784 - 03/10/08 04:25 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: flynch]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Quote:

For me I guess as long as the person I train under was directly affected by these actions it will still be in the forefront of my thoughts when I think of TKD. For good or bad.





Understood

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#377785 - 03/10/08 04:28 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
No argument here.

Top
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