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#377526 - 02/25/08 02:19 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: michaelboik]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

GM Park Jong Soo has a video set available and on one DVD he demonstrates how a TKD person would handle a grapler,kickboxer, etc. I haven't gotten it yet and was wondering if anyone here has and what do they think of it?




I have it. It contains 10 DVDs. Do you know which one it is on?
I have only watched a couple so far, thise related to history & interviews.

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#377527 - 02/25/08 03:00 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:

1. There is no confusion; General Choi was involved in the naming of Taekwondo but we are not foolish enough to believe that what much of what Taekwondo is his creation; far from it. The Koreans both North and South were practicing martial arts both from their culture as well as from Japan far before Choi was even born. That Choi decided to put it in a little box and label doesn't take from these facts.



You are most correct in your claim that Korea had fighting arts well before Ambassador Choi was born. That goes without saying, as all countries can & many do make similiar claims. However I challenge you or anyone else to demonstrate a link, direct or otherwise, to what is now being done in Korea from 1945 to present, backed up by academic research. None exists.
Quote:

People date the origins of Taekwondo from a long time ago and though there may be some confusion and national pride, Choi is in my opinion "new" to this.



People, what people? Can you name them? Can you cite their research that supports this claim?
Now lets clear something up, you use TKD as an umbrella term. Others use it as an Art whose principal founder was Ambassador Choi, others look at it as a Martial Sport, even an Olympic sport. I find no problem with any usage of the name.
What is beyond refute is that the he named it. He was not just simply "involved" in it, as he came up with the name. It is also clear that few if any, even used the name, till 1965, the 1972, 1973 & finally 1978. The only ones using it from the start, were Choi & his followers, namely the Oh Do Kwan & those from the Chung Do Kwan that followed him. Now he did, along with many talented students of various MAs, did systemize a style of MA, that was spread to countless Koreans & then countless others around the world, due to their efforts, long before any others were even using the name.
Quote:

Forgive me if I offend you but I have found many ITF people treat Choi like some patron saint. They stick him high on some grand pedestal and believe his writings to be much like the bible; thus making him their god of a sort. I don't see him as anything but a man, one that I owe nothing to nor acknowledge any more then a person in history; one of many who were involved in martial arts. Perhaps if I was ITF, perhaps if I cared about history instead of application then he may mean more to me but he doesn't and so when people throw his name out like it is suppose to mean something, it means nothing to me then throwing out any other random name. I suspect many ITF people will take offense to that but so be it; they must understand that he is not all important to everybody.



Sir, you do not offend me. It would really take a lot more than an opposing view point on an internet discussion forum. Especially from someone who admits to not caring about history. Don't be silly!
I also do not look to him as a saint, nor put him on a pedestal, nor do I equate his writings to any bible or holybook, nor do I consider him some sort of a g-d. He is just a man. One who because of Korean geo-politics, was written out of history. One who, along with Dr. Kim Un Yong, did more to develop, promote & spread a wonderful & popular KMA around the world. I can think of no 2 other people who were more instrumental than they were. Am I missing someone else?
Please do share with me.




Dereck:
Sir, with all due respect I repeat this post in its entirety, as I see you did not answer any of my questions. It may have gotten lost in the back & forth. My questions remain & others are free to answer, as I constantly do look for new information.
Any takers?

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#377528 - 02/25/08 03:08 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Arrrrrgh! No wonder this thread has got so long. There's probably only two letters to each page along with a zillion quoted quotation quotes!

Guys, can we PLEASE stop using whole posts in their entirity in quotes?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#377529 - 02/25/08 03:49 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: michaelboik]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Quote:

GM Park Jong Soo has a video set available and on one DVD he demonstrates how a TKD person would handle a grapler,kickboxer, etc. I haven't gotten it yet and was wondering if anyone here has and what do they think of it?




Michaelboik

I looked up GM Park Jong Soo and came across a video from 1973 that appeared to be him demonstrating one step sparing at some event. He was awesome even back in 1973.

What I found to be so fascinating watching this is we do one steps also but we utilize many, more hand techniques and take downs in this sparing. Not normally a big deal but the school I train at is WTF affiliated. I can honestly say that GM Park Soo used at least three times as many kicks as we do for this type sparing and I didn"t see one take down.

Please do not take this as my school is better than that ITF school I am only interested in the fact that WTF schools are always being criticized for not using the hands enough and kicking too much. As I watched this I couldn"t help to notice that ITF kicks way more often than I thought and we use our hands way more than others want to believe, so what the heck is all this debate that go:s on between WTF and ITF all about? it does not make since to me. I am rambling now. I was just mesmerized watching this that's all.

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#377530 - 02/25/08 03:50 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: trevek]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Sorry & you are right. Probably part of the reason why it went unanswered, lost in the mess. That is why I repeated the whole thing, as it was complicated & had specific points & counters that I am trying to get Dereck & others to respond to. I usually try to cut it down & thanks to Mr. Anslow, I have learned how to do it better or more concise.
Sorry again, but still waiting for an exchange.......

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#377531 - 02/25/08 03:53 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
von1:
Please keep in mind that the GM Park was doing them, was more like model sparring & not 1 step sparring that is currently in the syllabus. It looks like traditional or old style 1 steps, which was the way I 1st learned them as well.

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#377532 - 02/25/08 04:03 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: trevek]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Dam you Trevek, now I will have to paraphrase instead of using quotes.

ITFunity:

1. Good, we agree martial arts were being practices far before Taekwondo; that is a given. As for your request I can provide no proof of what was practice prior to 1945 to what is practiced now. However I will go on the record for say that kicking and punching and sweeping and all of that good stuff in Taekwondo was not created by Taekwondo. All of that stuff has been practiced for centuries however the patterns and sparring practices especially Olympic sparring are new; no question.

Many people who create something take something already being done and package it all up nice and fancy, name it something new and then throw in something to make it their own. The basics are not theirs, just what they've had and their little twist. That is what Taekwondo did, took a lot of good basics and then added their twist to make it what it is today HOWEVER it is my opinion that the basics of what Taekwondo used is the best part and that the sparring and patterns though can be beneficial are what has taken away from much of the good that was intended.

2. It is my opinion that anything good comes from a group of people working together as a team; in this case a committee appointed by the government. While Choi was credited for naming Taekwondo it is my opinion that this committee also helped and it could have been as little as giving ideas that eventually derived to the name Taekwondo that Choi submitted. That he is given sole credit is nothing knew as this happens in many areas of the world including industry and I see this all of the time. I have even been a part of committees both designing and naming with one person taking credit however that person could not have done it without the help of others. Plus naming Taekwondo does not make it Taekwondo. A committee decided what Taekwondo should be and it is still evolving today; some for the good some for the bad.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#377533 - 02/25/08 04:24 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Thanks guys.

Dereck, as an EFL teacher I encourage paraphrasing as a useful educational tool. I'll give you an A this time.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#377534 - 02/25/08 07:47 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

This did occur, but it was the 60s & 70s, not the 50s. In the 50s, 1959 to be exact, they toured Vietnam & Taiwan, the 1st time ever TKD was exhibited abroad.



yes sorry about the years, was just thinking off the cuff1

Quote:

The challenge matches were often done by now GM kong Yong Il, who is reported to have gone 127-0.



Hence my point!

Quote:

I challenged him to the 128th fight, but he refused! He probably knew he would destroy me! I quickly claimed the win by default!



LOL

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#377535 - 02/25/08 08:50 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
EvenRats Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 75
Quote:

This did occur, but it was the 60s & 70s, not the 50s. In the 50s, 1959 to be exact, they toured Vietnam & Taiwan, the 1st time ever TKD was exhibited abroad.

The challenge matches were often done by now GM kong Yong Il, who is reported to have gone 127-0. I challenged him to the 128th fight, but he refused! He probably knew he would destroy me! I quickly claimed the win by default!




ITFunity, I've heard of the first demos and exhibitions, but do you know where I can read additional information on GM Kong Yong IL's challenge fights?

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