FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 31 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn
22904 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 15
cxt 7
trevek 6
futsaowingchun 3
JKogas 2
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Throwing
by
04/23/05 10:58 PM
Recent Posts
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
Yesterday at 12:04 PM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/29/14 05:11 AM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:53 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
Forum Stats
22904 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432456 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 53 of 72 < 1 2 ... 51 52 53 54 55 ... 71 72 >
Topic Options
#377786 - 03/10/08 05:26 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Found this and wanted to share agree or not it should make one think.

http://www.judoinfo.com/sport.htm

If you anyone is wondering why I put it on this thred it is because sport TKD has been a subject of is TKD loosing its popularity.

Top
#377787 - 03/11/08 12:11 AM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
badachagi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 62
Quote:

Found this and wanted to share agree or not it should make one think.

http://www.judoinfo.com/sport.htm

If you anyone is wondering why I put it on this thred it is because sport TKD has been a subject of is TKD loosing its popularity.




The book _Taekwondo: The State Of The Art_ (by Masters Sung Chul Whang, Jun Chul Whang, and Dae Sung Lee) makes similar points. While recognizing the obvious limitations of sparring with rules, the authors also argue that sparring has allowed for the refinement of TKD techniques through actual application by keeping what works and discarding what doesn't.

"As competitors and coaches have sought for more effective ways to win matches, the very techniques that have been retained through the filtering process mentioned above have evolved. The turning kick is not the same kick it was twenty years ago. Nor are the back kick or the spinning hook kick. The principles of footwork have changed. All of these changes have made modern Taekwondo faster and more powerful than the methods traditionally passed on from antiquity. Indeed, one of the things that sets Taekwondo apart from more traditional martial arts is its interest in the improvement and evolution of all its techniques. While tournament rules may limit the targets one may hit as well as the kinds of techniques allowed, Taekwondo has nonetheless become even more powerful."

"Another factor to consider in this debate is that under self-defense circumstances, a trained fighter with a modest degree of self-defense training will strike to the legs and other "illegal" targets just as well as one who has forsaken competition training -- and probably a good deal faster ahd harder. Most self-defense training simply does not emphasize speed and power to the same degree that competition training does."

"Finally, competition training teaches an important lesson for any student interested in self-defense. That lesson has to do with actually being hit. Many students have a fear that being hit would somehow cripple or destroy them. But once they have been exposed to sparring, they learn that being hit is not the end; they learn that they can take a hit, and survive, and learn to strike back. In this lesson there is a tremendous sense of security and self-assurance, and it is a critical lesson in martial arts education."

(pp. 33 and 34, "Philosophy of Taekwondo")

Top
#377788 - 03/11/08 01:30 AM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Good points & good reading. Thanks for posting them. In addition, to me its just common sense that your SD skills will improve if you train in these types of activities. It is just a matter of what you want in your training & how the place you pick is able to deliver it. I am happy with the SD capabilites I have had over the years. However, the much more important benefits I have gained through my training help me daily in ways that are not related to SD.

Top
#377789 - 03/11/08 10:09 AM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: badachagi]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
badachadi, unity:


Well said.

Top
#377790 - 03/11/08 10:41 AM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

badachadi, unity:


Well said.




Yes, good post.

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

Top
#377791 - 03/11/08 10:53 AM Re: Taekwondo losing it's face/popularity [Re: matxtx]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

MattJ,back the F off.
There is totaly no need for you come into a post with a tone like that.
Could it not have been done by PM if at all?
Yea, just come barging in like the big man




If the shoe fits, brother. You don't get to tell me to back off, either.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#377792 - 03/11/08 01:31 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: badachagi]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
I totally agree with the speed, the idea of being hit and the foot work.

I don't agree with the power (my personnal experience) or the evolution of the techniques. By virtue of the fact that the evolution of the techniques is based on the point system at the heart of the sport this argument falls apart. The techniques are being evolved for use within the sparring system and not for self defense. It may be better than not doing anything but I don't agree that a competition fighter can just change his mindset during a fight. JMHO

Top
#377793 - 03/11/08 01:34 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
As somebody living in a relatively free country I still can't believe the level of pressure that was put on some of these people and their families.

Top
#377794 - 03/11/08 02:10 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: flynch]
badachagi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 62
Quote:

I totally agree with the speed, the idea of being hit and the foot work.

I don't agree with the power (my personnal experience) or the evolution of the techniques. By virtue of the fact that the evolution of the techniques is based on the point system at the heart of the sport this argument falls apart. The techniques are being evolved for use within the sparring system and not for self defense. It may be better than not doing anything but I don't agree that a competition fighter can just change his mindset during a fight. JMHO




With respect to power, I don't what experiences have led you to form your opinion, but I can tell you that WTF/Olympic-style fighter hit HARD. Perhaps harder than they used to.

If you're talking dojang sparring or local tournaments, then I'll grant that in those environment you won't get hit that hard. I've personally sparred everywhere from dojangs, small local tournaments, larger regional events, national championships (USAT/USTU), and international opens, and can attest that at the higher levels, the fighters are strong and powerful.

It used to be that tall, skinny body types were the most favorable for WTF-style competition. The idea was that height gave you reach, so it was to your advantage to be as tall and skinny as possible. Nowadays, more fighters are eschewing that model for strength and explosiveness. It's common for fighters to include weightlifting in their training, not to build bulk and mass, but to create explosive, fast, powerful movements. So instead of the tall, skinny fighters of old, you have slightly bigger, much more powerful fighters.

With respect to evolution of technique, you have to take context into consideration. The authors wrote, for example, that todays turning kick (i.e. roundhouse kick) is not as it was 30-40 years ago. While I was not alive that long ago, I have it on good authority that the roundhouse kicks used to be delivered with a much wider arc, resulting in a much slower movement where the power relied on the swing and follow through of the hips. While this gave you a strong kick, the wide arc and lack of speed made it easier to avoid than the modern roundhouse, which has a much tighter, quicker motion. The power is still there, it's just achieved differently (via speed). I think you could make a strong argument that the fast, quick roundhouse of today would be more useful if used in SD than the slower, wider roundhouse of old.

Top
#377795 - 03/11/08 03:51 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: flynch]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Quote:

I totally agree with the speed, the idea of being hit and the foot work.

I don't agree with the power (my personal experience) or the evolution of the techniques. By virtue of the fact that the evolution of the techniques is based on the point system at the heart of the sport this argument falls apart. The techniques are being evolved for use within the sparring system and not for self defense. It may be better than not doing anything but I don't agree that a competition fighter can just change his mindset during a fight. JMHO




My first thought is that you have never been kicked by these people, I assure you the kicks are very powerful, and injuries, and knock outs are common.

Because of the speed that they are delivered with makes them appear less powerful and is very deceiving. And yes it is very easy to switch gears because sparing is just part of the training, the other components of training SD for many is probably not much different than your training.

This is what myself and others have been trying to expose to some of our critics. Best advice I could give is for you to enter a tourney and find out. You should try a few tourneys because as always some turn out to be more competitive than others. You win some, you loose some. As far as the point system I personally have never competed in a competition that wasn"t continuous sparing so it is not like you are just trying to get a point. Your goal is to knock that other person to oblivion, knock outs are always desired, if you cannot achieve this goal you win or lose on points. Now I cannot comment on stop point sparing as I have never participated but I assume that points may be more critical.

This will be hard to explain but I will try,

As one gains knowledge and experience from all the sparing and improves the sparing aspect things slow down and it becomes easier to think while you are fighting. Personally while I am sparing it is easy to see and think about all the techniques I could be using that are illegal for sparing. It is kind of like you are play fighting with a little brother or a child, you could hurt them but you wouldn"t. This is a mind set only after you have done it many times, early on before experience things move very fast, too fast, no time to think you are trying to survive. This is another benefit of our sparing the more we do it the slower a real fight or situation unfolds for us. Simple example, opponent comes in and it is obvious that the first thing one might do is punch, palm strike to face, chop to throat, maybe followed by a finishing kick or what not, however because of the rules I cannot palm strike or punch. I don"t believe as ITF you would be allowed to palm strike or chop to throat either but you are very aware of the option for SD, and so are we. The philosophy of WTF sparing considers hand techniques to be more instinctive and natural so our main goal is to work on and improve our kicking. This doesn"t mean we do not train hand techniques we do, you just won"t see them during competition just like you won"t see many of an ITF competitors hand techniques during one of their competitions, doesn"t mean they are not there. I guarantee that most competitors, ITF or WTF would not SD the same as they compete.


Edited by von1 (03/11/08 04:38 PM)

Top
Page 53 of 72 < 1 2 ... 51 52 53 54 55 ... 71 72 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga