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#377766 - 03/09/08 07:07 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: michaelboik]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:

Sorry, I meant Lee Suk Hi.




GM Lee Suk Hi is a gentleman & devote Christian (a minister I think). he was one who had hardship & was called a communsit traitor after he went to NK in 1980 & afterwards for TKD. He was the VP of the ITF in the 80s.

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#377767 - 03/09/08 07:09 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Quote:

Quote:

Understood and very sad, However, many of the people who were damaged the most are gone so the ones who carry the contempt are doing it for general purpose, that always proves to be counter productive. If it is not for general purpose than there is an agenda and that would worry me to as it should anyone involved in TKD. If standards were strictly enforced it would do a great deal to stop mcdo jo"s.




Yes contempt is harmful & counter productive. However, the new leadership in the WTF is I think more inclined to move forward. It is the old hard liners in the Kukkiwon who are more resistant. This 2nd generation were there in the 60s & they will be much harder to win over. JMHO




Yes I believe you are accurate in saying this which only further feeds the con temp for the WTF by ITF.

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#377768 - 03/09/08 07:12 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

With a well defined system and strong governing body those not affiliated would not be TKD. This is impossible though unless ITF and WTF come together as one, determine the standards, monitor those standards, enforce the standards, and legally expel those clubs that do not live up to the minimum standards. The only way to pull this off is with a governing body that consist of both WTF, and ITF, so there is no question who governs and owns the TKD concept. With out involvement from both we end up with what we have now, two main entities fighting for recognition and dominance.




Von1:

In theory great! I would support it. However, how can you stop someone from using or calling what they do TKD? You can't! The ITF tried that for decades. The founder came up with the name. Remember, they were the only ones to really use the name TKD till the mid 1960s. Some did not use it till the late 1970s. So that gave the ITF fuel to boast what the others were doing was not TKD. Where did it get them? No where! Millions of students later, the WTF has 180 member nations & EVEN the IOC says what they govern is TKD. Remember, there are simply more independent TKD then any others. It boils down to many just use it as an umbrella name. The train has already left the station.

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#377769 - 03/09/08 07:18 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Yes I believe you are accurate in saying this which only further feeds the con temp for the WTF by ITF.




Please keep in mind, the ITF is the one pushing the merge. They are being met with resistance. Remember, the ITF had a signed written aggrement back in 1980, I think, with the WTF secty genl signing it. Dr. Kim & the SK Govt blocked it. lately, there have been several meetings with coordination committees of the 2 groups, the ITF-NK & WTF. Hopefully the changing political climate between the 2 Koreas will help more than hurt. That is truly IMHO the key. Real world geo-politics, not MA.

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#377770 - 03/09/08 07:30 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Quote:

Quote:

With a well defined system and strong governing body those not affiliated would not be TKD. This is impossible though unless ITF and WTF come together as one, determine the standards, monitor those standards, enforce the standards, and legally expel those clubs that do not live up to the minimum standards. The only way to pull this off is with a governing body that consist of both WTF, and ITF, so there is no question who governs and owns the TKD concept. With out involvement from both we end up with what we have now, two main entities fighting for recognition and dominance.




Von1:

In theory great! I would support it. However, how can you stop someone from using or calling what they do TKD? You can't! The ITF tried that for decades. The founder came up with the name. Remember, they were the only ones to really use the name TKD till the mid 1960s. Some did not use it till the late 1970s. So that gave the ITF fuel to boast what the others were doing was not TKD. Where did it get them? No where! Millions of students later, the WTF has 180 member nations & EVEN the IOC says what they govern is TKD. Remember, there are simply more independent TKD then any others. It boils down to many just use it as an umbrella name. The train has already left the station.





I saw that coming. I believe if most the main players get together, meaning WTF, ITF, and any other significant organizations and become one it is simply marketing, the new organization would have consistency in the minds of the world. Now for the tricky part, the key would still be the olympics, but this time would include more factions. You have to admit if the world sees an olympic organization as the gov body the rest is easy. Really all we are talking about is regrouping and restructuring ourselves to become stronger.

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#377771 - 03/09/08 07:33 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Good point Von1. I see your logic!

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#377772 - 03/09/08 08:27 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Dream on right.

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#377773 - 03/09/08 08:37 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Absolutely. It is a great dream & 1 that may be helped by some sort of merger. But it really in the end, comes down to you & me, not literally you & me, but students on both sides, ITF, WTF & of course the independents. If we all just worked together, without bickering, we could all grow in a positive direction. I have learned a lot in forums & even the Kukkiwon textbook. So the more we at the bottom share, the better for all. Plus we should set an example for our students & juniors, that hard feelings of the past, don't reflect on us personally, so we should not let other's fights become our own. Nuttin wrong with dreamin!

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#377774 - 03/09/08 08:43 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Dido

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#377775 - 03/10/08 12:58 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: trevek]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
Quote:

I must say, as a non-ITF Chang Hon-in (can I say that?), I have trained as a guest at WTF clubs across Europe and have never found any problem. I was always allowed to wear my association dobok and belt (and I always asked first)and have always received a warm welcome. Even in the ITF clubs I've trained at as a guest have been very hospitable and, likewise insisted that I wear my dobok (even when I wore a WTF one) and belt.




Yes you would be welcomed the same way at our club. Students no matter were they are from can wear the uniform they have and the belt they have. We have many WTF students train at our club. We also have students from New Zealand, Korea, Europe etc. I think they like the sparring at our club. I have fought with many of these students over the year and I have noticed many things some things I though could be added to my trainning and some that I wouldn't

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