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#377546 - 02/26/08 01:14 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: michaelboik]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Quote:

GM Kil is quite skilled in Hapkido. You are very lucky to have an instructor of his skill level.




michaelboik"


Just curious, how are you familiar with GM Kil? I have tried to ask questions of Master Kil regarding the politics of Tae Kwon Do and GM Kil acknowledges that they exist but I really can not seem to get specifics from his point of view because of the language barrier. I kind of rely on this forum to learn that aspect and contribute what little I know but just as everyone else I can only contribute from my own perspective which is from wtf point of view. GM Kil has been around for a very long time and I wish I could communicate better with him because he has so much knowledge.

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#377547 - 02/26/08 01:21 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

No Sir, you didn't respond to #15986449, posted on 02/25/08 at 11:47pm, which appears about 7-8 posts above. I am afraid to get in trouble for re-quoting it again!

LOL

Thanks



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#377548 - 02/26/08 03:16 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
michaelboik Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 60
Quote:

Quote:

GM Kil is quite skilled in Hapkido. You are very lucky to have an instructor of his skill level.




michaelboik"


Just curious, how are you familiar with GM Kil? I have tried to ask questions of Master Kil regarding the politics of Tae Kwon Do and GM Kil acknowledges that they exist but I really can not seem to get specifics from his point of view because of the language barrier. I kind of rely on this forum to learn that aspect and contribute what little I know but just as everyone else I can only contribute from my own perspective which is from wtf point of view. GM Kil has been around for a very long time and I wish I could communicate better with him because he has so much knowledge.




GM Kil came to the states just before I left the Han Moo Kwan school. I had no face time with him but watched him demonstrate his techniques. This one time he used Master Ahmeds assistent( can't remember his name) who was about 250+ pounds and just threw him all over the place. To see GM Kil, who is small throw this larger man was incredible. I remember after that the assistent was icing his wrists and was in a bit of pain.
_________________________
Mike www.drysdaletkd.com]

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#377549 - 02/26/08 04:53 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

No Sir, you didn't respond to #15986449, posted on 02/25/08 at 11:47pm, which appears about 7-8 posts above. I am afraid to get in trouble for re-quoting it again!

LOL
Thanks




I reread it for the 3rd time and I see now questions to answer. I got your history lesson from it though.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#377550 - 02/26/08 05:44 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
No Sir, there were no questions posed. Just comments refuting/responding to yours. I was just wondering why there was no further response from you. I think I see now.
Thanks

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#377551 - 02/26/08 05:57 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
The thing with the challenge fights,127-0, is that it was then,there is going to be hardly any evidence I bet,we wont know the calibre of opponents or if it was standing,grappling or standing and grappling.We wont know the rules.There will be no footage.There never is.
Its fair enough if he did that or any of them challenged,but knowing that does not make it effective
today.We cant read that and say ''well it proves im capable''.A person learning is told that and thinks he can now survive.Hes got to know what TKD offers and what it does not.Hes got to have it proven to him and know it.Its got to be put into perspective.When its not it looses face and that 15 year old looses his face in a violent assault.

TKD,early days,seems to have resembled Thai boxing in its no nonsense,powerfull,well conditioned approach so im I would not be surprised if it held its own with other strikers.We know when trained well it can holds its own in a strikers realm.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#377552 - 02/26/08 09:52 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: matxtx]
EvenRats Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 75
Quote:

TKD,early days,seems to have resembled Thai boxing in its no nonsense,powerfull,well conditioned approach so im I would not be surprised if it held its own with other strikers.We know when trained well it can holds its own in a strikers realm.




One of my instructors once told me that TKD-fighters back then were very stiff and lacked the athleticism that today's high flying kickers and punchers possessed. But they were well conditioned to the point where every kick and punch was brutal. Afterall, it was developed for use in the military.

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#377553 - 02/27/08 11:47 AM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: matxtx]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

The thing with the challenge fights.......




Reminds me of the boxer Larry Holmes. He beat everyone they threw at him & the complaint was they were bums. It was not his fault. He took them all on & beat them. .


Quote:

TKD,early days,seems to have resembled Thai boxing in its no nonsense,powerfull,well conditioned approach so im I would not be surprised if it held its own with other strikers.We know when trained well it can holds its own in a strikers realm.




This is a good point. I would like to add that in order to remain a viable method of SD, it must train with a base in realism. This IMHO is 1 of the major reasons why TKD has suffered much with losing face & its often well deserved reputation of being a poor vehicle for real SD skills.

Now here is why history is so important to helping to understand why we are where we are today. But 1st, B 4 we get 2 that, lets define TKD.

For many, TKD is just an umbrella name for KMA (striking), who for the most part are still doing Korean karate. So any critique of them, must be taken to include a critique of Karate, as that is what they 1st learned & for the most part are still teaching.

Another major way to look at TKD is a martial sport that has gained Olympic status. This group, shaped to a great extent by the JiDo kwan, were Shotokan karate, see their logo, crest or patch for reference. They used new tournament rules to be distinguished from the hated japanese. Since this is an emphasis any critique should take that into consideration.

The other way that some look at what TKD is & they are the minority, is a Korean Art of SD, devised by military men, led by a 2 Star Major-General in the ROK Army. These pioneers later became instrumental in the ITF. However, for the most part, these are the ones that gave TKD its early reputation as a brutal SD method. Now some of them are also guilty of watering down what they do, due to the same influences of those in the other 2 groups, namely insurance, income & child rearing.

So to sum up, TKD really can't be lumped into 1 group, so both critques & praises have to be sensitive to this.

In addition, even though the ITF is the smallest group, they are the ones that not only 1st used the name, but it was their system that was devised as a modern MMA, whose results were not only praised & sought after, but feared by the enemy. JMNSHO shaped by mountains of research.

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#377554 - 02/27/08 12:00 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: EvenRats]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Yes & no EvenRats. Your instructor may be right, as they were in great shape, but were also great atheletes. But just like other physical activities, they were pioneers, so many things were not yet more fully developed & as such, were not being pushed to new limits.
For example, Han Cha Kyo was a great flying kicker. It is him that is doing many of the flying kicks in the early photos. Park Jong Soo was also strong in this area & he is credited with developing the reverse hooking kick. He is still in great shape for his matured age, as is CK Choi, still a perfect split & Choi Kwang Jo with his awesome high twisting kick to the rear!

Remember basketball players like George Mikan & Bob Cousy. Compare them to Wilt Chamberlain & Oscar Robertson & then to Mike Jordan & the Shack. Even gymnasists were doing what, 2 twists in the air. Now what are they doing, 4, 4 &1/2, same as platform divers & runners. Whats the time for a mile race now?

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#377555 - 02/27/08 01:24 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Interesting read; thanks. I do have one question regarding this statement in context with your post.

Quote:

In addition, even though the ITF is the smallest group, they are the ones that not only 1st used the name, but it was their system that was devised as a modern MMA, whose results were not only praised & sought after, but feared by the enemy. JMNSHO shaped by mountains of research.




Do you personally think that the ITF "now" follows this hard core system? Or in your travels have you found that the ITF much like the WTF and other factions follow similar endurance and physicalness?
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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